Break the Matrix

Connor, I feel like this is a little OT, but thought I should reply anyway.

Ok, so thoughts, not science. 

I happen to have a Japanese sister in law. Beautiful woman, but with a recessed lower jaw, V-shaped upper arch and VERY crowded teeth (never had braces). Not to generalize too much but isn't this something you see a lot in Japanese people? (Her parents both have good facial structure for whatever it's worth.)

I've been told by her and my brother who is married to her, that braces and orthodontic treatment in general is far less common in Japan (it's becoming more and more common though). So my thought was: What if that's why we don't see as many super damaged faces in Japan? Or at least they're not damaged in the same way? Because what I have seen after studying hundreds of before-after-braces pictures is that yes, the facial structure was bad to begin with, but braces were what really made it collapse. Some people's faces weren't even that broken before treatment, but afterwards it looked like they lost half their face. Considering how many people have had braces in the Western world, the "brace face" is extremely common. Again, just a thought. I, too, hope I haven't offended anybody.

The thing is that RAMPA (as well as the crane and traditional headgears) requires long hours of wear and according to Dr Howell, this places too much stress and will not grow new bone.

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this information. It really seems like we've got two opposing views here. One Howell/Plato side that claims you shouldn't wear it for too long and one Crane/Mew/RAMPA side that says you need to wear it for enough hours during the day.

Back to the topic of moving the mandible back or forward. If you look at the before-after picture of this woman's skull here:
http://www.thecranencrp.com/beforeandafter.html
It looks as if her mandible actually came forward quite a bit. The heatmap thing also indicates this.

Another difference between Crane and RAMPA that I thought about is the headgear pushing on the bones. Quote website for The Crane:
"the CRANE is more effective than traditional methods of forward pull because it's not using the mandible (considered an anatomical joint) and facial bones (also subject to being pushed in or moved) to "move" the maxilla forward.  Question: Do current methods of reverse pull the maxilla and facial bones out OR are the mandible and facial bones actually being pushed in?"

If you look at this picture of RAMPA, it pushes on the forehead (not sure if/how that matters).

Thanks for the information, PUMA! Very interesting. Does anybody know of any labs that sell it, or is it only used in Japan?

Get a cheep one from eBay, for example this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-Snoring-Mouthpiece-Stop-Snore-Mouthguard-Snoreguard-Device-Sleeping-Aid-/201025955461?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2ece14a685

You heat it up in hot water, then you make the impression of your teeth. Use a dremel or something similar to drill holes.
Walrus says:

I bought a simple moldable mouthguard (about $3), molded it, punched a couple holes where the clips should have been and attached shoe laces instead of rubber bands.  I just pull on the shoe laces with my hands.

There's a picture somewhere on this forum that I think Walrus put up.

Complexx, please read people's posts before making assumptions. I'm seeing lots of results from the palate expander, however not from the face pulling with that same expander. The topic of the post is mainly face pulling, correct?

Let's just make sure we're on the same page here. There's transverse expansion and sagittal. Most Schwarz appliances are transverse/lateral, as is mine. Face pulling is dealing with sagittal expansion.

I actually don't think DNA and Schwarz are all that different! (Aside from the sagittal screw which can be added to a Schwarz.) This is just an opinion however, but I believe what this doctor is saying:
http://dangblog.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/skeptical-inquiry-epigenetic-orthodontics-part-2/

It was nice to see a picture of this DNA appliance. What you have recieved on the upper is nothing more than a standard upper active plate with a “triple screw” and a bunch of Rube Goldbergess finger springs to push your front teeth forward. [...] I am currently looking at a picture of this appliance in a book published in 1966 and written by a dentist named Schwarz. Your upper appliance is a combination of a Schwarz plate and a Sagittal Plate. Similar constructs were being used in the 1800′s.

I don't agree with the other things he's claiming.
But we might want to be open to the idea that the thing that differs the most is the protocol (Schwarz - wear all the time, DNA - wear at night).

Anyway, that's a bit OT. 

Yes, kudos to Omar! I've already shared my story with him and I encourage anybody here who has had a similar experience to do the same. Also, we could share this on blogs and other message boards.

Why not broaden the topic to all kinds of retractive treatments/appliances and not just headgear? And why not include people who just had crooked teeth (without any overbite/overjet) and were given this kind of growth restricting treatment? As far as appliances go there are other kinds that work like headgear, for example Twin blocks, Bionator, Mara and Herbst appliance.
Or would that be too broad for a legal process?

The premaxilla is an interesting question, we could discuss it for days but in all the adult skulls that I've seen it is fused as it says in the text books.

You might want to talk to Dr. Brendan Stack in DC about the premaxilla. He uses the ALF appliance and talks a lot about developing the premaxilla (I heard this from a 45 year old patient).

My cheekbones (the part just below the outer corners of the eyes) have widened quite a bit after I started using the transverse Schwarz appliance. Would this be a sign that the actual palatal suture has widened or could it be something else? (This was before any facepulling or balloon therapy.)

Why would I stop using the expander when that's the only thing that has helped so far? (I guess I didn't made sense in my last post.) I could stop using it and then try face pulling and ncr but a relapse at this point wouldn't be fun since I've invested a year in this treatment. So far ncr and fp are just theories to me without any proof that they would help me, whereas lateral expansion is very real.

What I'm using is very similar to a DNA appliance. I haven't done any forward expansion yet but I plan to. What Dr. Mew is asking though is whether face pulling for 30 or so minutes a day is helping people. My reply to that is that after 3 months I see very minor changes, if any, but I'm also struggling with understanding exactly what area we're talking about here.