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Posted by: angelo22
« on: January 13, 2017, 06:57:04 am »

Well, now that some time has passed, it's time for checking some results. If any  :D

First thing, I have to admit my NCR has been somewhat inconsistent during December.
Between staying with my family, a nasty clogged nose (mild sinusitis) and a vacation, I did no more than 3 sessions during that month, all in the first 10 days.

Now, I've only done 2 during the first half of January.
Also, I'm using cooking butter instead of vegetable oil to lubricate the balloon. Even greasier! But I'm not sure which one works best yet.



Results:
My jaw muscles are now fairly strong... I don't have prominent masseters when not tensed, but my mouth always stays shut with no problem at all.
Unfortunately, I did not take profile pictures when I first started, and since in so little time there can't be obvious change, my face is not that changed yet,
but after a whole day with my mouth mostly shut (not chewing gum, staying home because it's studying session) I feel funny sensations in my lower teeth,
similar to those I had when wearing braces, but WAY milder.

I'd say that's because my lower jaw is gradually adapting to a very slow shift by the upper jaw!
This also makes me worried about the dental splint I have in my lower arch though...
(if you don't know, it's a wire used to bind the teeth and keep them static after orthodontic treatment (otherwise they'll push forward again, which is the cause of the crowing) or to prevent dangerous movements caused by bone erosion (periodontitis)).

I'll think about getting it removed, since I hope my lower arch will expand. Then my lower wisdom teeth will be able to pop out (the upper ones already did, although not completely).
But I'd rather first be certain my mandible is expanding, otherwise I'll just get crowded lower incisives again.

But the thing that really keeps me going is a pressure-like feeling (not pain, just... sensation, you know?) exactly in the TMJ area.
I've noticed it's mostly in the right side, and that makes perfect sense because my right cheekbone is very slightly lower than the left one.
I can also see that from my lips, that the right side slightly droops. Nothing ugly, but it's there.



So, in the end, I really think I'm getting somewhere :D

Good luck to all you guys on this journey, and if you want to discuss or ask me anything, I'm here :)


PS: This month I'm being pretty focused on researching nutritional needs / deficencies related to bone growth.
    I'd rather not take any supplements, but we'll see...
Posted by: Doumi
« on: November 25, 2016, 12:48:31 pm »

@Betterbytheday

I think that the lower teeth tilt in a way to match the upper palate if you keep your mouth closed and teeth together while widening. Search "Orthosmile - Expander" on Youtube - it's shown in the beginning of the video.
Posted by: Progress
« on: November 25, 2016, 10:45:19 am »

The resting place of lower jaw will come forward as palate is expanded. This compensates for the difference in arch diameter. During the process, teeth on both arches will reposition themselves a bit to fit the new bite.
Posted by: Betterbytheday
« on: November 25, 2016, 03:28:51 am »

@MJON

After your palate was expanded, does your lower jaw bite now not align with your upper jaw? Surely if you expand the upper the lower would also need to be expanded. Ive often wondered this.

Angelo thats great, exactly the results I want. I used to always chew falim gum and it really squared my jaw out. But now having a high gonial angle and large
Masseter muscles does not look aesthetic and makes the face look bloated. Great facial structure and weak muscle tone is better than having a weak facial structure and great muscle tone.
Posted by: angelo22
« on: November 23, 2016, 08:39:56 am »

After a week-long break, I'm starting NCR again.
I'm pretty comfortable with it now, so I will no longer record every single session and just talk about what's happening in general.
Also, I put in the main post all the bits of information that helped me get better at it.

I think I'm finally starting to see some results from all this...
While I haven't noticed differences in the chin area and the gonial angle (it *should* diminish over time, but bone remodeling takes months, if not years),
I think my cheekbones might be slightly more lateral than they were before, and my face looks "larger" than before.
I think a good help also comes from chewing 1 hour a day a very tough gum, the mastiha.
Started 3 days ago, but I already see a bigger temporalis muscle!
And the pterygoids are probably stronger as well, and the masseter is always sore :)


MJON: I don't know how to help you, sorry... Only thing I know is that tongue ties are usually treated surgically.
Posted by: MJON
« on: November 22, 2016, 04:48:06 pm »

I agree with everyone that has said to fix your oral posture- prevention is better than a cure every time. Having said that, I've been working on oral posture for over a year, and even though there has been a slight improvement I knew something is still up... Followed a self check online and I'm pretty sure I have a slight tongue tie, which would explain everything really. Anyone know how I can fix this? Feel like if I get that sorted it will hold any results from a palate expander etc
Posted by: Betterbytheday
« on: November 22, 2016, 12:55:41 pm »

Thanks angelo. I noticed changes the morning after every session. I did 4 sessions per week so 8 in total.
Posted by: angelo22
« on: November 22, 2016, 08:02:23 am »

I'm sorry to hear that... But you know how to solve the problem, so I wish you luck :)

One thing though, after how much time / how many NCR sessions (4?) have you started noticing the changes?
Posted by: Betterbytheday
« on: November 20, 2016, 07:33:40 pm »

Jeez... What has this forum come to ::)

For anyone that cares, I personally stopped NCR 2 weeks ago. I noticed vertical facial growth which NCR amplified and accelerated it. Dont even think of doing NCR if you havent fixed your oral posture, at best you will see no change and theres a high chance you will be worser off than before. I did NCR for 4 days across 2 weeks. Funny enough everytime I did a NCR session before bed, I woke up Cheekbones were flatter! consistently for for those 2 weeks. since stopped my facial growth has 'stabilised'. I was mouthbreathing everynight. No suprise though, NCR before bed, mouth hanging open BOOM maxilla is mobile, has no support falls back and down. Another thing I have or now notice is my tongue doesn't fit in the roof of my mouth anymore. Its even more annoying that people have commented on how my face has changed shape, (not people who I see on a daily basis, but people who havent seen me for the past 2months). I laugh while I die a little inside, makes me want to blast my brains out (jk). Looking on the brightside Im waiting on a palatal expander, ill be happy if I got my top jaw wider enough to have space for my tongue. Ill start NCR again when Ive got my posture right and hopefully look forward to great facial changes.

Fix your oral posture first thats the main culprit
Posted by: Progress
« on: November 16, 2016, 05:30:49 am »

Quote from: chris on November 16, 2016, 03:44:51 am
lool ur a prick
just fite me irl faget i was one of the toughest lads in middle school my bro can deadlift 170 lbs when bulking

Posted by: chris
« on: November 16, 2016, 03:44:51 am »

lool ur a prick
Posted by: Allnicc12
« on: November 15, 2016, 11:34:35 am »

I will add that while i have no qualifications in any of this nor studying for any like Angelo i know enough to what am doing
NCR in the way ive described only seeks to loosen up the sutures from the Sphenoid  so that a change can happen and your skull over time alters, Mewing ie tongue on top of palate helps to effect this change more rapidly and keeps the results stable, your tongue is your natural retainer and balances out the forces from your cheeks you have to learn to adopt that posture or any effect you get will be short lived, its no different to having Homeoblock or braces to increase bone width only to then relapse many years later because your natural retainer wasnt up in the palate keeping the results in place, NCR works and mewing keeps the work achieved permanent.
Posted by: angelo22
« on: November 14, 2016, 07:04:09 am »

I wouldn't want to give someone reading some false hopes, but I really believe that improving the skull structure can result in a more ideal equilibrium for the whole body.

While I'm not unhappy with my life, I never liked how my chin is a little recessed, but the main thing I'm hoping for is fixing my back, since I have a mild scoliosis and lumbar hyperlordosis.
It's not heavily debilitating and it's not ruining my appearance, but I often have to rest my lower back after walking for long, and it's hard to be completely relaxed while sitting.

The relations between the skull - orthodontical occlusion and the spine are very interesting, and I'd like to study them more once I graduate in dentistry.


And yes, correct posture needs some conscious effort since it's not actually "natural" for your current structure. I rarely have to fix my tongue position anymore, except for when I've just woken up (need to train the chewing muscles, mainly masseters and pterygoids), but I still need to constantly remind myself to keep the head straight.
Posted by: Progress
« on: November 14, 2016, 04:13:15 am »

I was talking about mewing hard WHILE doing the inflation, but yes I agree with you totally.

As I fixed my head forward posture last summer, my mother thought I had grown significantly taller, simply because I was now standing straight and anatomically correct. It seems that the way you carry yourself ( = how others perceive your height) is much more important than a small difference in actual height (say 1-2 inches). After starting paying attention to this, I've seen 6'2 tall people who don't look that impressive because they slough, and I've seen 5'10's who look in control of their environment because they carry themselves with grace.

Although, with recessed maxilla and mandible the head will never learn to stay in the optimal posture, because the nervous system tends to want to position the head in a way that gives the throat better airflow (head forward) and compensate for this imbalance with the whole muscle chain from head to toes (lordosis, tight pelvis etc). Eventually, once maxilla has been moved forward and mandible is allowed to rotate out of the airways, good head posture should probably become completely automatic.

Until that point good posture is going to have to be consciously maintained 24/7. Or what do you think?
Posted by: angelo22
« on: November 13, 2016, 06:57:16 am »

Indeed, proper oral posture is essential to achieve real, lasting results.
Something that we also should strive to correct is the head posture:
When we're not sliding our head forward, thus stretching the back neck muscles instead of contracting them,
the tongue almost implicitly goes to the right spot :)


As for my NCR, I might take a break for the week to come... I'm still feeling things in my skull and I'd rather wait a little. Slow and steady :)