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Posted by: Knoppe
« on: November 02, 2014, 11:41:11 pm »

The height dimension is what I'm talking about as the missing piece. We talk about forward and outward movement but mever about supporting bite height.

My ortho builds my bite up everytime I go for a check-up.

The first time I got these build ups. I felt amazing just after a few days. And so, I don't need to be pursuaded by the Starecta people regarding bite height. It does matter. What I'm unsure of is if it's possible to fix this without permanent build ups or not.


Through Plato aswell.



/Knoppe


Quote from: ect on October 24, 2014, 12:36:47 am
Knoppe: This is the first time I've seen the Starecta method discussed anywhere. How did you find out about it and what do you know so far? Also what theory are you referring to where something is missing?

I read bits of the Starecta preview book I think, and the concepts make sense. I met Plato in New York and he had made up a device himself and was very excited about what it has to offer, he seems to think it's the missing component in balancing one's structure between all the other things talked about here. I thought I could address the more sunken part of my skull from face pulling by applying more force to that side, or pulling at different angles. Plato said he tried all that to no avail but the Starecta method has been working, in turn also straightening his pelvis and spine like you can see from the inventor's results on the website.

Posted by: ect
« on: October 24, 2014, 12:36:47 am »

Knoppe: This is the first time I've seen the Starecta method discussed anywhere. How did you find out about it and what do you know so far? Also what theory are you referring to where something is missing?

I read bits of the Starecta preview book I think, and the concepts make sense. I met Plato in New York and he had made up a device himself and was very excited about what it has to offer, he seems to think it's the missing component in balancing one's structure between all the other things talked about here. I thought I could address the more sunken part of my skull from face pulling by applying more force to that side, or pulling at different angles. Plato said he tried all that to no avail but the Starecta method has been working, in turn also straightening his pelvis and spine like you can see from the inventor's results on the website.
Posted by: Knoppe
« on: October 20, 2014, 11:22:19 pm »

I noticed a similar thing with face pulling. As soon as I went a couple of weeks without, my face seemed to revert. This also happens on and off but seems to have stabilised for now.

I've only been doing NCR with a licensed practitioner and I've had great results so far. I feel as if there definatly is something that hampers the self treatment portion. Meaning that I think it's possible but more demanding.

What are your take on tongue posture and proper swallowing? I feel as if the reseting of the cranial bones when swallowing is a crucial part in all of this. I feel it's a possible negative feedback loop. Crooked skulm = crooked teeth = even more crooked skull.

From my current point of view, I feel as if one really benefits from a broader treatment but at the same time I really don't know. What I mean is that in theory the dental arches collapse because of poor tongue posture which may stem from mouth breathing and/or a crooked skull. Not adressing poor tongue posture will result in relapsing. The same goes for the cranial bones. If they're crooked, relapse will ensure later on.

Also. There is a third aspect which I myself are reluctant to adress. Skull sinking as described in the Starecta method. Worm down teeth makes the head sink due to loss of vertical support which in turn affects the heads posture and therefore the rest of the body. The Starecta method prescribes artificial heightening of the teeth by support. The book is a bit expensive but interesting, seeing as the author got amazing results himself.

I feel there is something missing in the current theory and I'm wondering what.

Posted by: MessiahMews
« on: October 12, 2014, 07:38:45 pm »

Quote from: Connor on October 03, 2014, 08:00:33 pm
I completely forgot to mention my ABC guy did actually give me a balloon treatment but only after i practically persuaded him. He really didnt seem like he wanted nor knew what he was doing even though he was trained to do it. I actually had to refrain from laughing because of how poorly he did the procedure. He also talked a very great deal of **** excuse my French, on NCR and Dr Dean Howell. He tried explaining (also poorly) on how Dean stole the procedure from the ABC creator guy which I really don't know or believe its true. But someone could prove me wrong. Basically in the end he said my skull isn't the issue and my spine is. He said it would take many many ABC treatments from him to fix my "incredibly wound up spine" and he was up for the challenge. That's when i basically gave him the finger and walked away.
I've had NCR done and it was in my opinion 100x better than what the ABC guy did to me and I actually saw results....though i'm sure others would protest me and say their ABC practitioner was much better....which i undoubtedly believe they probably were.


Another thing Norm this is just what has worked and not worked for me. It can be completeley diffrent for you and to be honest id still give it a go if i were you. I honestly have no idea what I personally am doing wrong and why my skull & body is being a little punk and not cooperating. I plan on talking to Plato and paying him to help me out and diagnose me on this stuff. Because when i met him in New York he seemed to be the smartest and most experienced person I've met whos done and come out of this stuff with great results along with his good friend Kevin and Patient Ian zero.

So if you have the spare cash and time id still give it a go man! But my experience one NCR treatment is better than my 8 ABC treatments. Then again my ABC guy didnt seem like he was the best in the field.

I've done both NCR and ABC treatments, and both of them have given me excellent results.  I got the ABC because that guy is closer than NCR, and I wanted the spine to unwind a little faster.   My ABC guy did not take the ABC Endonasal training, so I still have to travel to get the NCR.  I usually get a ROLFing session, then ABC right before the NCR trip, and sometimes during with another ABC guy in the same area as my NCR naturopath.

Dean Howell taught Jesse Jutkowitz the balloon inflations training, and Jesse J. taught Dean the testing part of it.  If you listen closely on this video of Jesse talking, you will hear him say he took the course from Dean, but that he, in turn taught the Dean the testing.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8fRRFoPSfI

On this page, Dean Howell talks about teaching Jesse the ballooning part. http://www.drdeanhowell.com/balloon-sinuplasty.html
Quote
"I taught ECM to Jesse Jutkowitz, DC who showed me the Spinal Stressology techniques that the Wards had been unwilling to show me. He was convinced that my sphenoid wing palpation points could be tested with the Applied Kinesiology techniques of Spinal Stressology."
You can read the whole thing to get the whole text.  That should clear up who taught who what and so forth.

My NCR naturopath is Hillary, and the last time I had NCR with her, my husband and I had just finished up taking a basic live seminar of ABC.  I had several of those meningeal releases in one day, as it is part of the training.  I We also had to do them on each other and other chiropractors and/or practitioners.  I ended up having 2 Lateral, 3 Anterior and 1 Posterior meningeal release.  The Anterior meningeal release is the hardest to endure.  But for the rest of that day and the day after, I had no appetite, and my digestion was better.   The lateral meningeal release is the easiest to endure.  When it was time for the NCR part of the trip, Hillary noted that my shoulders were square and back.  She was testing me and pushing me hard and I would not go forward and she noted that I was very stable.  To me, it seemed that the NCR and ABC worked well together.  My husband does ABC on me at home, minus the meningeal releases, as he's still not comfortable doing them without supervision.  So I go to the ABC chiropractor once a month for a full ABC adjustment, and hubby does tune ups in between.

I had planned on doing an AtlasProfilax during this Fall season, but that fell through, along with my next upcoming NCR session.  I lost one of my jobs temporarily, so I will have to reschedule in the spring.  I would love for someone close to us to learn NCR, so I won't have to travel to the next state.  The NCR costs are not bad, it's the travel, gas and lodging which ends up being more than the NCR itself.

I'm still doing facial pulling every now and then just using my hands.

I won't do self NCR until I am taught by either Dean or Jesse, because I prefer the testing beforehand and I would rather learn proper testing and balloon insertion first before attempting on a do-it-yourself session.

I'm also going to be looking into the NRCT (Neurological Relief Centers Technique) aka The Paul Whitcomb protocol.  It also addresses the meningeal compression and the Atlas.  If I can't get to an AtlasPro practitioner, then this would be the next best thing for me.

Paul Whitcomb's main focus is Meningeal Compression and Fibromyalgia.  http://whitcombpaul.wordpress.com/2012/12/27/fibromyalgia-and-meningeal-compression-dr-paul-whitcomb/
 
The websites are: 
http://whitcombpaul.wordpress.com/
http://www.nrc.md/
http://www.stopfibro.net/

For TMJ, I'm also using something called TMJ-Ease by Elijah Free, which is an herbal extract combination.  It helps the excess hardening of calculi and fibrin to soften up and dissolve in an indirect way by addressing a rare nutrient deficiency of the potassium spectrum.  Also serrapeptase is used for any hardened fibrin and fibrosis conditions, and it's a direct action.

Thankfully, both my NCR doctor and ABC doctor have been doing these for a long time, so I'm in good hands with great results from both.
Posted by: Connor
« on: October 03, 2014, 08:00:33 pm »

I completely forgot to mention my ABC guy did actually give me a balloon treatment but only after i practically persuaded him. He really didnt seem like he wanted nor knew what he was doing even though he was trained to do it. I actually had to refrain from laughing because of how poorly he did the procedure. He also talked a very great deal of **** excuse my French, on NCR and Dr Dean Howell. He tried explaining (also poorly) on how Dean stole the procedure from the ABC creator guy which I really don't know or believe its true. But someone could prove me wrong. Basically in the end he said my skull isn't the issue and my spine is. He said it would take many many ABC treatments from him to fix my "incredibly wound up spine" and he was up for the challenge. That's when i basically gave him the finger and walked away.
I've had NCR done and it was in my opinion 100x better than what the ABC guy did to me and I actually saw results....though i'm sure others would protest me and say their ABC practitioner was much better....which i undoubtedly believe they probably were.


Another thing Norm this is just what has worked and not worked for me. It can be completeley diffrent for you and to be honest id still give it a go if i were you. I honestly have no idea what I personally am doing wrong and why my skull & body is being a little punk and not cooperating. I plan on talking to Plato and paying him to help me out and diagnose me on this stuff. Because when i met him in New York he seemed to be the smartest and most experienced person I've met whos done and come out of this stuff with great results along with his good friend Kevin and Patient Ian zero.

So if you have the spare cash and time id still give it a go man! But my experience one NCR treatment is better than my 8 ABC treatments. Then again my ABC guy didnt seem like he was the best in the field.
Posted by: Norm23
« on: October 03, 2014, 01:52:30 pm »

Will do.

Just curious, did your atlas stay in its new position on your follow-up appointment?

Also I'm assuming the ABC chiro you saw did not also do endocranial ballooning? But that would blow my theory out of the water that neck and spine issues are causing the cranial problems, given that you've done both ABC and atlaspro.
Posted by: Connor
« on: October 03, 2014, 12:59:55 pm »

I'm right on with you Norm perfectly worded....Its not to say it cant be done or accomplished but the usage and importance may definitely have been understated by many on this forum including me. I also got atlas-profilax done by Michael Hane (awesome amazing guy) and I saw some obvious improvements the first time but not very many as I believe the effects of atlas profilax are ongoing and very slow. I also believe it can be a great help on improving and paving a smoother road for all the NCR and Facepulling and all the positive outcomes of them....I also did ABC and it seemed to be very relaxing and feel great but i had no real awesome effects from it even though i went a number of 6-8 times. Maybe the car ride messed up my results as his practice was a ways away. Keep us updated on your progress its great to hear your having it Norm.

Posted by: Norm23
« on: October 03, 2014, 12:13:43 am »

You might have a point re: importance of balloon placement, and possibly the importance of proper body work beforehand. That's not to say you can't improve without these things, it's just their importance may have been understated on this forum.

I'm coming to this from a similar angle as you. I began with "self-ballooning" about 6 months ago and noticed some progress, but just not to the extent I was hoping for. There were also some doubts about whether I was performing the procedure correctly. Early on, I had problems similar to those documented here by CP (i.e. the balloon would tend to travel down towards my throat with minimal pressure, rather than up towards the sphenoid). Later, I adjusted the method to be as similar to NCR as I could...which is to say most of the expansion would occur in the turbinates first, before bursting through into the throat and hitting the sphenoid. Even going so far as to perform the procedure lying down and stacking up to three finger cots at a time (and frequently popping them). There were some small improvements, and definitely a sensation of movement after the inflations, but the changes didn't seem to accumulate like I thought they should. After some modest improvements, it felt like I hit a bit of a sticking point.

Since then I've down a couple things:

1) Atlasprofilax. The procedure immediately improved the range of motion of my neck. It also resulted in an immediate and noticeable (although not major) improvement to facial symmetry. My left leg felt weird for a day and I slept a bit longer the night of the procedure, but no significant improvements beyond the first day changes. It appears I've held onto those improvements for about 3 months now... although I'm not 100% sure if the atlas has kept its new position. I was supposed to find out this week but plans fell through unfortunately.

2) ABC with endonasal correction. I started the treatment this week. It is very similar to NCR, in that the balance testing is exactly the same and the actual inflating method appears to be exactly the same. The difference is that rather than completing NCR "bodywork", they complete a number of stretches/adjustments to release the meninges. Some of them are pretty basic, some of them are incredibly intense (I say this as a 25 year old man who has been to a few chiropractors before and generally am not phased by neck adjustments. But I am not exaggerating when I say that some of these adjustments I had never felt anything like that before in my life- almost like someone was bending my spine like a pretzel). Curiously, after the meningeal release I noticed a significant amount of facial movement, much more than usual- and I hadn't even started the endonasal ballooning portion of the session.

In terms of the actual inflation, it felt near identical to what I was doing except that the doctor pinches my nose as he completes the inflations and seems to spend a lot more time beforehand directing the finger cot "deep" into the correct nasal passage (not sure if that's really necessary, and it's kind of painful when the toothpick is poking your turbinates). It's literally one inflation, two inflations, three inflations, and bam it bursts into your throat. Ideally the doctor detects the pressure difference as feedback through his hands, or maybe he inflates one more time and gags you which kind of sucks- this is his cue to hit the release valve. In terms of the pressure applied, it actually felt as though less pressure was being applied then what I had been doing. Although he was only using one balloon, whereas I had been using two to three. Every single time he has placed the finger cot in the exact same location, which in my case in bottom right turbinate. This is different from where I had been inflating most of the time.

It's only been one week, but so far the changes seem to have been accumulating far more rapidly than with self-ballooning. I feel less wound up and calmer (although I'm also on vacation, lol). My theory is that in many cases, endo-nasal ballooning is not sufficient on its own to produce optimal results. Occassionally, spinal problems can be bad enough that they impact the skull. In such cases, the spine also needs to be addressed. And for the record, my spine is a mess.

It's a little early to judge results, so I will wait another 6 months or so and see where I'm at with the ABC endonasal. Unfortunately I am not able to seek treatment as often as I would like due to the travel required, plus my crazy work schedule. I'm tempted to complete some self-inflations now that I know the "correct" passageway, but I think I will avoid so I can determine the true efficacy of ABC endonasal. Best case scenario is I will get in 4 or more 5 sessions in that time frame. Not sure if this answers your questions, but at least it gives you the perspective of someone who starting with self-ballooning before moving to NCR, which is exactly the opposite of what Ben did (NCR first, followed by self-ballooning).
Posted by: Connor
« on: October 02, 2014, 01:00:11 pm »

I was reading this page on Dean Howells website when something caught my eye. Towards the last section of this page it talks about directly moving the sphenoid bone and getting it to stay. It seems in many cases with just simply inflating the finger cot into the nasal cavity(im guessing even with massage and body releasing tecniques), it would only give temporary relief to the patients and then they would return back to the dysfunctional makeup of the body they had previously. NCR doctors seem to know exactly where and when to put the balloon in the correct nasal cavity in order for not only maximum progress, but for lasting progress that wont depress back to the patients original state. I have noticed this while performing NCR & Facepulling on myself for the past almost two, three years now. I will seem to have fantastic progress for a short time but then, somewhere down the line i notice that it seems my body and skull almost "return". It is very discouraging to say the least especially after the money and time put down for braces(damon) a second time. Anyway, besides my pitiful talking, Im starting to think its important to see an NCR doctor and receive initial treatments (not one but maybe a few). That way you yourself can document what they are doing and ask as many questions as you can so when the time comes for self treatment, you can actually get the progress you are looking for.

That brings me to Ben (bstratt). He initally had many treatments before starting self treatment himself. This would lead me to believe it is a big factor with the profound success hes had. 

What are your thoughts lads....Here is the Dean Howell website text....


"PHYSICIAN TRAINING INFORMATION FOR NEUROCRANIAL RESTRUCTURING TECHNIQUES
Have you ever been frustrated with patients whose structures continually return to the same pattern, regardless of your treatment techniques? Have you ever been upset to be told that a patient had a chronic injury and therefore could only be given brief respite from their pain? I was angry about it!

NCR is the outgrowth of over 19 years of clinical experience and frustration with physical medicine. When I was in school, my anatomy instructors were still teaching the archaic concept of skull fusion. The treatment concepts and protocols that I learned were essentially unchanged since the early 1900’s. It was only with physical medicine concepts that there seemed to be this stasis; with other aspects of medicine, there were new developments.

I learned manipulation of hard and soft tissues from men with thirty to fifty years of clinical experience. The younger doctors would ask these same men for advice when they were confused. Yet when it came to biochemical questions or questions regarding toxicity of substances, we were quick to pull out the current research. At the time I accepted this situation; I didn’t question why there were no new concepts in physical medicine. Now I do.

I think that physical medicine represents the fourth leg of natural medicine: (1) Biochemistry (2) Detoxification (3) Lifestyle (4) Structure or Physical Medicine.

You cannot often heal a physical medicine structure with nutrition, supplements of detoxification. This is because these are not nutritional, lifestyle or toxic exposure problems. In many cases, only physical medicine techniques are appropriate, and they do not work often enough.

When I looked at my training (in retrospect), I realized that there were few unifying concepts in physical medicine treatments:

        1. Bones should line up where we think they should be
        2. Muscles shouldn’t be tight.

This meant that we should push, pull, massage, exercise, stretch or use braces or other devices to coerce the muscles and bones into the positions that we thought were best for the body. To the frustration of all concerned, these patients’ bodies continually return to the previous pattern of alignment.

My realization was that these simple concepts are wrong. For example, when a patient had a whiplash injury and his neck straightened out, I decided to pretend that the body was working properly instead of being injured. I could find no conflict with the clinical findings. This meant that the body had a functional reason to align the neck in a straighter pattern. Then I needed to determine why the body needed to align this way and treat the cause. I found that the reason why the body straightened the neck pattern after a whiplash injury was to support the head more effectively. The local injury to the neck is quickly treated. This is the reason why a person with whiplash makes steady improvement when treatment is initiated—the local treatment techniques are treating the local trauma. When medical stability is realized, the local treatment is finished and the so-called chronic injury remains.

At this point, the generalized body reaction to the injury has not been addressed. What typically remains is the cranial trauma. The whiplash injury moves the head anteriorly, creating a straighter neck to support the weight of the head. The proprioceptive system moves the bones of the body into the most convenient stable pattern for the skull, even if this stable pattern causes pain and poor functioning in other areas of the body. This means that most musculoskeletal problems are not local problems—they have systemic causation. Local therapy is unable to create lasting changes in the musculoskeletal system because it is not treating the cause of the structural patterns.

Let me restate that. Cranial stability has the highest priority in the body’s physical hierarchy. It is more important than pain or musculoskeletal function. When I performed conventional physical medicine therapies on my patients, I destabilized them. Because the proprioceptive system didn’t like this, the body would return to the nearest stable alignment.

The object of treatment, then, is to find physical medicine modalities that work with the body’s proprioceptive system. The widely practiced techniques of muscle, spine and cranial manipulation have low percentages of success. Evidently they are not addressing the situation well. When I researched cranial techniques, I found writings going back into the 1930’s and even the 1920’s that reported the ineffectiveness of external cranial treatment. The conclusion of these early thinkers was that the sphenoid positioning is paramount in cranial bone positions, primarily because of the central position that the sphenoid bone has in cranial bone interrelationships. It became apparent that the sphenoid is poorly represented on the external surfaces of the skull, and the greater mass of the internal surfaces of the sphenoid cannot be accessed easily.

Practitioners developed techniques to move the sphenoid bone internally, using fingers up the nose and into the throat as well as inflating small balloons in patient’s noses—all to move the sphenoid through direct contact. These techniques are generally ineffective, yet in a few cases they proved so successful that the whole field remained tantalizing.

The question had become: How do we move the sphenoid bone and make it stay?

I had used Bilateral Nasal Specific Technique for years and found it somewhat effective. With BNS, a small finger cot is lubricated, inserted sequentially among the six nasal meati into the nasopharynx and then inflated for two to five seconds with a sphygnomometer bulb. The problem with BNS was that it was sometimes painful and generally gave only temporary results for conditions other than nasal ones (hence the name).

Patients with severe chronic problems often became permanent patients because of the relief that they received. This was frustrating to my patients and to me. While I was trying to make my treatments last longer, I discovered that the sphenoid bone’s relative position and the stress patterns in the cranial structure could be analyzed. As I began to see the sphenoid bone as a bone connected with a network of bones that collectively determined their positions, the ability to make greater changes in the bone position developed. But the treatments still didn’t last or accumulate much.

This approach is the foundation for the NeuroCranial Restructuring™. I employ methods of manipulation that have been in use for at least sixty years. However, the analysis and thinking techniques I use began in 1995."

Dean Howell, ND"