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Posted by: Airbag_14261
« on: November 02, 2014, 03:32:43 am »

Hi again,

I just thought I'd give an update on my current situation as I have a few questions for the community.

I've now had 4 series of NCR in the past 12 months but have noticed very little change over that time. After my first series, there was an improvement in my posture and after my third and fourth, the were temporary improvements in my jaw problems. Unfortunately I'm still dealing with them and the tinnitus and my facial asymmetries have not improved at all.

I've recently seen a local dentist regarding the DNA appliance and just had the moulds made for both the upper and lower appliances on Friday. I've been quoted $5000 AUD for the upper and $7000 for both, although I've been told that if I want to get the lower appliance at a later date, it'll cost me the full $5000 again. I decided to just go with the upper appliance but I'm not entirely convinced that I've made the right decision.

Unfortunately there's not a whole lot of information out there regarding the system but I've just read that the upper appliance alone can (according to the theory of epigenetic orthodontics) affect positive change on the lower jaw. $5000 is a huge commitment for me, especially when I've already got good teeth and a relatively wide palate (I can't remember exactly how many millimetres it was but it was in the 30s). I was also informed that I would have to wear a retainer at nights indefinitely in order to prevent relapse but I was under the impression that results at least tend to be permanent.

So what I'd like to know is, has anyone experienced good results (including improvements in the lower teeth/jaw) by just using an upper DNA appliance or Homeoblock?

Also, have you had to wear a retainer following palate expansion in order to prevent relapse?



Thanks
Posted by: Airbag_14261
« on: January 19, 2014, 05:02:40 am »

Sorry again about the late reply.

I agree with you about the current state of the medical community. I'm been "listening" to my body for years and I'm finally convinced that my gut issue is SIBO due to linked symptoms that I know aren't coincidental. In light of only mildly encouraging lab results I'm having a hard time trying to convince my doctor that it's the case. In her opinion all of the symptoms are only superficial and coincidental and if you can manage the symptoms then it's a job well done. Of course I'm more interested in restoring overall health.

And yes it is such a shame that all of the knowledge that was being gained in the mainstream medical community of the late 19th and early 20th centuries regarding the brain/gut/skin connections has been completely lost with the rise of modern medicine.

But anyway...


I'm 22 by the way.
Posted by: Knoppe
« on: January 05, 2014, 07:21:31 am »

Hmm, the jaw making noises along with soreness of the teeth MIGHT be indicators of TMD/bruxism. Which I suppose is a good thing in that it somewhat narrows the scope. How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?
I got tinnitus and jaw soreness 10 years before this freaky cr*p I've been crippled by for the last 1-2 years. So things MIGHT progress.

I'm not trying to fearmonger you or to make you decide what to do. I'm not qualified to give any medical advice. Just trying to provide possible clues for you to research further. Just because I've found relief from this treatment doesn't mean that I think everyone would benefit from it. Some people are fine after undergoing ROLFING, some NCR, some are find after dietary adjustments, others need orthodontic work and there are some like myself who need a bit of everything.

I'm as sceptical as they come but will try most things once, if the "science" sits well in my gut, so to speak. I do not believe in the current medical science. Even Asclepius knew about the mind-body connection that has since been lost in the pillfeeding frienzy that rules todays medicine. It took me 10 Dr.s to get and ulnar nerve displacement confirmed, something that I myself spent five years trying to figure out. My only option so far has been surgery, something that I refuse. Instead I found a great body worker who pretty much improved my condition by 50%. And we're not done yet.

As they say in the old show the X-files "the truth is out there".

I'm convinced that every person knows the answer to their respective maladies. It's just a matter of learning the theory and listening to ones body. Dr.s are supposed to help with each individual case, not pigonhole ailments.

Ok, sorry for the ranting. I'm happy for these kinds of forums. It's always a pleasure to meet likeminded people.


About the diet. I'm stills trying to figure out meal plans but I will record and take notes of my experience once I begin in a few weeks. Maybe it's bananas and maybe it isn't. I won't know until I've tried it myself.
Posted by: Airbag_14261
« on: January 05, 2014, 06:06:25 am »

Quote from: Knoppe on January 02, 2014, 01:49:43 am
Ok, I'm by no means an expert and just trying to shot gun probable cuases here. :) I don't know what you look like and if you feel that your face/teeth are Ok then they probably are. I never had braces before (I thank my lucky star for this) and most people where surprised to see me in bracers because "My teeth where fine, right?". What they missed is my retruded lower jaw, cross bite, over jet and oberbite. In my case, for myself, it was obvious what had to be done. I went through quite a bit of conventional orthodontist before finally deciding to go abroad to commence treatment with an ALF-dentist. Sured enough, he found my bite to be quite disturbing. Which was a relief seeing as the previous ones just wanted to rip out some teeth and straighten the rest.

Do you have any jae pain? My tinnitus introduced itself at the same time as TMJ-pain reared it's ugly head. Do you brux at night (clench/grind your teeth)? There might be a small discrepancy that caused bruxing which in turn brings on tinnitus.

I remember reading up on tinnitus when I first got it. Back then it was blieved to be caused by damaged nerves in the ear. SOME cases where belived to be caused by muscular imbalances. To me, it's obvious now what's causing my problems. My hope is to recover fully after this treatment and to be able to tell people about it so that they won't have to suffer as I have.

Back on topic. If it's not your teeth then I'd play around with nutrition. If you haven't, get off grains. It's amazing the amount of people who feel so much better without those anti nutrients. At least three of my friends have followed my lead in cutting gluten and have noticed an immence difference in well being and reduction of tummy aches/bloating. I don't care what people say. It's not fit for human consumption in the quantities we stuff ourselves with.

Ok, sorry for the rant. A consultation would be a good idea I think. Unless the practitioner is unethical, you'll know for sure if correction of your bite's needed. Getting of grains may help with the worn/tired look.

I myself am about to begin a peatatarian nutritional approach. I don't think it's a magic bullet but every experiment gives a clue to solving the puzzle.
I don't have any jaw pain as such but more discomfort. It makes a very audible (to other people) clunk on the right side when I open it right up and have my jaw muscles tensed. It also makes a crack (similar to the one you get during NCR but not as load) on the left if I move it after not using it for a while and it also sounds like there's fluid moving around on the right side when I move it. It does sometimes hurt when it's very cold though.

I don't think I grind my teeth in my sleep at all but I think I may have a tendency to clench my jaw sometimes. Oddly, my teeth tend to slightly ache after a hot shower as though I've been clenching them when I haven't. I've often wondered whether or not anyone else experiences this.

As for nutrition, I do avoid grains and gluten especially. I think whether or not one is sensitive it should be avoided especially considering the recent discovery of zonulin by Dr Alessio Fasano and the effect it has on the permeability of the gut and brain in anyone and everyone.

I greatly suspect that my gut issue is SIBO for a number of reasons and will hopefully be sorting out treatment shortly.

The peatatarian approach sounds interesting. Pro sugar and anti O3? I'd be interested to know how it works out.
Posted by: Knoppe
« on: January 02, 2014, 01:52:24 am »

Oh and sorry for all the spelling errors. I'm writing on my phone and english is not my native tongue.
Posted by: Knoppe
« on: January 02, 2014, 01:49:43 am »

Ok, I'm by no means an expert and just trying to shot gun probable cuases here. :) I don't know what you look like and if you feel that your face/teeth are Ok then they probably are. I never had braces before (I thank my lucky star for this) and most people where surprised to see me in bracers because "My teeth where fine, right?". What they missed is my retruded lower jaw, cross bite, over jet and oberbite. In my case, for myself, it was obvious what had to be done. I went through quite a bit of conventional orthodontist before finally deciding to go abroad to commence treatment with an ALF-dentist. Sured enough, he found my bite to be quite disturbing. Which was a relief seeing as the previous ones just wanted to rip out some teeth and straighten the rest.

Do you have any jae pain? My tinnitus introduced itself at the same time as TMJ-pain reared it's ugly head. Do you brux at night (clench/grind your teeth)? There might be a small discrepancy that caused bruxing which in turn brings on tinnitus.

I remember reading up on tinnitus when I first got it. Back then it was blieved to be caused by damaged nerves in the ear. SOME cases where belived to be caused by muscular imbalances. To me, it's obvious now what's causing my problems. My hope is to recover fully after this treatment and to be able to tell people about it so that they won't have to suffer as I have.

Back on topic. If it's not your teeth then I'd play around with nutrition. If you haven't, get off grains. It's amazing the amount of people who feel so much better without those anti nutrients. At least three of my friends have followed my lead in cutting gluten and have noticed an immence difference in well being and reduction of tummy aches/bloating. I don't care what people say. It's not fit for human consumption in the quantities we stuff ourselves with.

Ok, sorry for the rant. A consultation would be a good idea I think. Unless the practitioner is unethical, you'll know for sure if correction of your bite's needed. Getting of grains may help with the worn/tired look.

I myself am about to begin a peatatarian nutritional approach. I don't think it's a magic bullet but every experiment gives a clue to solving the puzzle.
Posted by: Airbag_14261
« on: January 02, 2014, 12:49:30 am »

Quote from: Knoppe on January 01, 2014, 11:56:08 pm
Airbag, what you describe sounds like a retracted maxilla among other things. I have the same things you describe. I'm not convinced that NCR by itself is enough to solve these issues. If you look at paient zero, Plato and the other proponents of NCR AND face pulling, they've all undergone orthodontic treatment. That's why I choose to get palatal expansion aswell as alignment of teeth as my primary treatment. Check ALF, Homeblock, DNA applience and the likes out.
Thanks for the reply, Knoppe. I already have quite a wide face and palate and my teeth are quite good. I've never had braces or fillings or anything else done and my wisdom teeth have all come through with next to no trouble at all. My bite is fine too except that my bottom teeth are slightly offset from the top and horizontally, the entire thing is on a slight angle. I assumed this to be due to the fact that my nose and central face is off centre to the corresponding side.

I've just looked into it and it seems there's a Homeoblock/DNA doctor in my capital city, so perhaps I'll have to book an appointment sometime.
Posted by: Knoppe
« on: January 01, 2014, 11:56:08 pm »

Airbag, what you describe sounds like a retracted maxilla among other things. I have the same things you describe. I'm not convinced that NCR by itself is enough to solve these issues. If you look at paient zero, Plato and the other proponents of NCR AND face pulling, they've all undergone orthodontic treatment. That's why I choose to get palatal expansion aswell as alignment of teeth as my primary treatment. Check ALF, Homeblock, DNA applience and the likes out.
Posted by: Airbag_14261
« on: January 01, 2014, 05:03:46 pm »

Sorry for the late reply, and thanks for your response, Ben. I have a few more questions that someone might be able to answer for me. I read in an interview with Dean Howell that in some instances he's noticed patients ears be pulled back slightly with the movement of the bones to which they're attached. Has anyone else noticed this? My ears sort of stick out. They're right on the point of being too big to be able to have short hair (a problem for me) and not big enough to be considered bat-ears or anything. Basically, a few mm would do the trick.

Also, I have pretty deep inset eyes with a lot of black skin around them. It's not puffy black like bags that come and go with sleep etc, it's just purply black skin which makes me wonder if it's a sign of underlying issues or if it's just hereditary. I've also read that this could possibly be at least partially relieved with NCR. Has anyone else noticed this too?
Posted by: MessiahMews
« on: December 23, 2013, 12:00:19 am »

Hey Ben.  Rice is well known to cause phlegm, especially white rice.  It doesn't have gluten, but is still a grain, nonetheless.

Would love to see more pics of the facial pulling results.
Posted by: Ben
« on: December 22, 2013, 03:19:40 pm »

Since it seems to me that many of the health problems we experience in the industrialised world comes down to some kind of reaction to our diets (Note the poor health of farmers compared with hunter gatherers shown in fossil records and the last remaining hunter gatherers today).

I thought I was eating pretty good, only grain I ate was rice. I still had a problem with my nose being blocked or partially blocked most of the time. Anyway since I cut out rice my nose is functioning better albeit with the limited space it has (underdeveloped mid-face).

I don't know much about your specific problem but any dietary changes that can be made to eliminate industrialised/farming age foods, Grain corn etc, I think will be wise ones.In my experience just cutting rice the final grain I ate at least over the last 3 weeks seems to have made a massive difference as far as inflammation is concerned or immune system or whatever controls such organs as the turbinates. I would like to wait 6 months before I can conclusively state whether or not the avoidance of rice has alleviated my symptoms but that is a long time so I felt I'd just give my 2 cents anyway.

Something else to note is that I've been face pulling and I've done a couple of NCR sessions (DIY) I don't think that they have helped much, although it does seem that I'm developing some cheek bones which I love.

I hope I don't sound too preachy or anything I just want to give my opinion take what you will from it. In my experience even if things I've read haven't directly helped me they have contributed to my journey which I think is leading me towards optimal health. Peace
Posted by: Airbag_14261
« on: December 21, 2013, 10:38:56 pm »

Quote from: Ben on December 21, 2013, 09:58:42 pm
What are you eating? Your body needs the raw materials to make the changes happen and most of them are just not available in the typical western diet. Cut out grains and all processed foods, just eat meat and greens with plenty of fats and occasional fruits get sunshine and spend time outdoors... see what happens then

I don't follow any particular regimen but I would say the closest thing that describes mine would be the primal diet. I work outdoors and live in a very hot, very sunny part of the country so there's no problems there.
Posted by: Ben
« on: December 21, 2013, 09:58:42 pm »

What are you eating? Your body needs the raw materials to make the changes happen and most of them are just not available in the typical western diet. Cut out grains and all processed foods, just eat meat and greens with plenty of fats and occasional fruits get sunshine and spend time outdoors... see what happens then
Posted by: Airbag_14261
« on: December 21, 2013, 09:40:20 pm »

Hi there.

It's been roughly 3 months since I had my first NCR treatment here in Australia and I've got a few questions for those that have had a bit more experience with it than myself. My main complaints were tinnitus, clear facial asymmetries, poor posture and a pretty prominent jaw crack that happens when I fully open my mouth. I believed the issues to be the result of head trauma sustained as a child as I've got a few scars on my forehead, one of which directly follows the line of a shallow dent in my skull.

Anyway, despite being somewhat skeptical of the treatment, I experienced no negative effects whatsoever but the only positive effect has been a noticeable improvement in posture. Don't get me wrong, it was very much a welcomed result but I've not experienced even the mildest of improvements to any of my other symptoms. I was told by my NCR doctor that tinnitus can be a bit hit and miss (I understand that it can also be the result of systemic inflammation) but I was expecting at least some improvement in facial asymmetries as that seems to be NCR's biggest selling point, although I'm sure these things are highly variable from person to person. I probably did approach it with too greater expectations but I do intend to go back for more treatments nonetheless.

So my question is, is this normal and, based on your different experiences, after roughly how many treatments on average should one begin to experience improvements in these other areas?



Thanks