Break the Matrix

Hello everyone! I'm new here and have been searching high and low for all of the cranial restructuring info I can find .. I've gone back and read the different threads in this forum .. Fascinating so far and absolutely inspiring!! I want to start my own NCR/face pulling journey but am not sure where to begin.

Like many of you, I had traditional orthodontics as a child to treat crooked teeth and an overbite/overjet. None of my teeth were removed, fortunately, but I ended up with the long-ish face, gummy smile, and lips that couldn't close comfortably. My treatment lasted about three years and I was finished by 12 years old or so. I stopped wearing my retainer shortly after that, and in the past several years (I'm 26 now) noticed that my teeth had started to shift again.

So long story short, I found Claiming Power's website a year and a half ago, learned about palate expansion and proper tongue posture, and decided to start my journey from there. I'd always been self conscious of my gummy smile and felt I definitely had the downward maxilla growth (due to a dental arch that wasn't big enough and improper tongue posture). I researched the different adult palate expansion devices and decided to go with the ALF. I was living in New York at the time and found an orthodontist there who utilized ALF with Invisalign, went for a consult and started treatment shortly thereafter.

It's been almost a year and a half now since I started this process .. There's been improvement but now I'm wondering if it's going to be enough to achieve the results I'm aiming for. I had the ALF on for approximately 7.5 months, on my top teeth top only. My ortho told me I needed to have my wisdom teeth removed (3 were partially impacted, 1 was almost fully impacted) because, even with expansion, I wasn't going to have enough room for them to grow in. I decided to use a wait and see approach and started Invisalign after the ALF .. The bottom left one ended up getting infected this past January, and I had emergency removal of both wisdom teeth on that side. I still have the two on my right side (including the almost fully impacted one), but they haven't come out any further and I'm trying to decide whether I should have them removed or not .. ? I want to keep them if I can make enough room, but now that the other side is out I'm afraid of my face becoming noticeably asymmetrical ? I was thinking of getting implants on the left side to re-balance my face out ..

Anyhow, as I'm nearing the end of my Invisalign treatment (before refinement), I've been trying to figure out what steps I should take next. Although my dental arch has been made wider, I'm not sure there's been any change to my actual facial structure. I've been practicing proper tongue posture now that I'm aware of it, however it's still a bit of a stretch for me to close my lips around my teeth. The gummy smile is still there, maybe not as bad as it was before, but still there, and I still have the flat profile without much cheekbone projection. Although I discussed all these issues with my ortho before starting treatment, I'm now thinking I should have worn the ALF longer and that I'm not on track to achieve those results with this treatment ..

So now I'm not sure what I should do next. My next appointment is in a month from now, at which point I'll have finished my Invisalign trays and my ortho and I will decide if I need refinements. My teeth look pretty good from a mainstream point of view (re-straightened out, and I now almost have the 10-tooth smile), but my primary goal was to fix the underlying structural issues with my face, and that hasn't yet been achieved. Now that I've been reading about NCR and face pulling, I want to start doing one or both of them, but is Invisalign going to impede any progress I can make ..? Should I wait until the Invisalign is finished, or will any up and forward maxilla movement still be hindered by me wearing a retainer? Is it possible to move the maxilla & mandible without moving my teeth, or without having to get them straightened out AGAIN?

Thank you so much to anyone who read through this whole thing!

TL;DR version: 26 years old-- Need up & forward jaw expansion. Had ALF appliance for 7.5 months and currently undergoing Invisalign treatment + proper tongue posturing. Want to try NCR and/or face pulling-- should I wait until after Invisalign or can I start now? Will wearing Invisalign retainer during NCR/face pulling prevent expansion? Will NCR/face pulling mess up the straightened teeth/improved bite I'm getting from orthodontics?

Any input at all would be very helpful! You've all inspired me through your posts here and a number of you seem quite knowledgeable. Below are some pictures for reference. Thanks! (:



Wooo! I finally got the pictures to show up. (:

Top left is just before I started ALF/Invisalign. Top right is what my teeth currently look like (I'm wearing my aligners in the picture). Bottom left is also a recent picture, but without the aligners on and a non-exaggerated, more relaxed smile. Bottom right shows the flatness of mid face area-- my teeth are together, lips slightly apart. Lips all the way together looks awkward on me because it's still a stretch to close them completely over my teeth .. My lower lip has to overcompensate to meet the upper lip and under-chin area becomes weirdly rounded when I do so.

Hi a8b9, It depends.

How are you going to Facepull? If you want to use your teeth as anchorage then you need something to keep them straight because Facepulling can mess your occlusion. It would be good to do while you're still using invisalign

If you are going to pull applying force to your palate then it's ok no matter what

PD: It's weird how you had expansion for so long and still there was no space for wisdom and your smile is still gummy  Your maxilla might have more problems rather than only crooked teeth.

Well, it's genetic in every living-being to develop a body capable of fitting every element of its own anatomy.

Sadly, humans are ruined. Maybe you had bad habits during your childhood which didn't allow a full development of your body.

Also, you don't look that bad, and you don't have a gummy smile

Your jaw looks well positioned which means that your teeth are ok, but it is not straight, and your gonial angle is wide as well. Probably because you failed at maintaining a good posture

Do exercises for the masseter and chew hard gum, keep your lips closed, teeth on slight contact, tongue on top and breath thru your nose. As I can see on the photo you ain't closing your lips ( You may be too old to get good results from good oral posture, anyway, it's not a reason to not do it )

Try to take another photo in a better angle, hold the phone against a wall at your height level

Thank you, James and Believer. Sorry for the late response! Believer, I've been trying to push up and forwards with my tongue throughout the day but I will try with my thumbs too. I also plan on going for some NCR sessions this fall, so I'll keep you all posted. (:

Best of luck to everyone here .. I would also suggest that everyone look into nutrition and supplements for healing, bone building/strengthening, etc., if you haven't already; also, binaural beats and essential oils, anything that can aid in an energetic sense.