Author Topic: Could you please give advice to a Doctor trying to perfect maxillary protraction  (Read 9187 times)

Mike Mew

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Dear All,

I am an orthodontist, one of the few third generation orthodontists and son of possibly the most controversial orthodontist in the world, who is wanting to find out what is really happening, in regard to the cause, pathology and cure of malocclusion and its relationship to other problems with the head and neck- TMD, sleep apnoea, glue ear, back and neck problems, sinusitis, deviated nasal septums etc etc......

Over the last 2 years I've visited practitioners all over the world in an attempt to find the best ways to move the maxilla up and forwards- which I feel is an integral part of correcting this problem. More recently talking to Dean Howell. I am very broad minded, and want to seek your help but also want to hear more than just your opinions or hearsay. The era of doctor knows best is truly over, and as I am trying to design the perfect protocol I thought that it might be a good idea to consult people that are effectively experimenting on them selves, since amongst you there is a great deal of latent knowledge.

If you are interested in what I am doing then here are some links;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtlACZ6uKpE
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Orthodont/
https://www.facebook.com/orthotropics
https://www.facebook.com/YCrookedTeeth
http://www.orthotropics.co.uk/

You will notice that I am using my real name, please respect this and give polite informative responses. At times in medicine we have to agree to disagree, I'm not a novice at this procedure in children and am arguably achieving the best facial changes ever gained in children. Its my mission to improve this and work on adults as well. Your help would be greatly appreciated, my specific goal is to design the perfect headgear and oral appliance, and to work out the best level of wear of the headgear.

Thank you very much in advance,

Best wishes,

Mike

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eusebius

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I saute you sir for your dedication and comprehensive thinking. I have similar aspirations of figuring out the best way to completely optimize the skull and structure of the body and am in the process of learning and taking action. I would love to speak with you further.

Best Regards,

Ryan

MessiahMews

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Welcome to the forum Mike Mew!   :)

We are very happy to see you here!  Looking forward to your posts, and know that many are going to be helped.

Enjoy!

Mike Mew

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The first thing, that I wanted to ask is how long you feel that you need to wear the headbrace to gain an effect. In orthodontics I would ask an adult to wear it for 18hrs.
I was shocked to hear Dean suggesting 15min, it seems crazy, do you have any of you opinions or better some hard evidence?
M

FebruaryRichard

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Hello Dr. Mew, very glad and surprised to see you here. Your open-mindedness really makes me feel better about the medecine community.
I have no idea how Dr. Howell's FaceMax Helmet works but I suppose it's very similar to the one designed by Dr. Amir (Located in Putney, London). Also worth noting is that Dr. Amir is also working with Dr. Howell for optimizing symmetry in his patients.

Here is someone going through face-pulling and NCR and sharing their experience on a blog : http://orgoneproducts.org/blog/category/palate-expansion/







« Si les hommes font tant de peine aux femmes, c’est sans doute qu’elles sont tellement plus belles quand elles pleurent.  »

Knoppe

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Mr.Mew. If it's in fact the real you than I must say that I'm impressed. It's very uncommon for practitioners to be open minded. Let alone to actually ask patients about their view om things. Have you checked Plato's site out? He has actually gone through the whole process and is an avid proponent of do it yourself face-pulling.

As for my own experience. I'm currently undergoing treatment with self litigating brackets, upper and lower "ALF's". There had been some movement but I still have a year to go. As my teeth continously misigned due to aggressive nighttime bruxism, I ended up with a worsening posture and other horrible cognitive and physical ailments. Building up my bite with composite relieves most of these. I do hope that more practitioners adopt your line of thinking and start helping people instead of butchering people.

/Knoppe

Mike Mew

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Thanks, could anyone give me feedback about there levels of time that they wear their head-braces. In orthodontics we usually think that 8hrs is the minimum for any changes. But many of you are only using these devices for 15min or so, surely if such a short time gained an effect then a heavy meal could also affect facial change. It does not make sense but I am open to what you think?
M

Mike Mew

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Also I knew Amir, nice guy visited my surgery to see what we were doing but played his cards very close to his chest and I was never very sure of his actual beliefs, which is always a shame. Does anyone know where he has gone to?
M

bstratt25

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Not sure Mike, but last I heard, Amir was still very active and practicing in the UK.

FebruaryRichard

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In fact, Dr. Amir is still practicing in Putney, London and has been a big help to the MS sufferers.
« Si les hommes font tant de peine aux femmes, c’est sans doute qu’elles sont tellement plus belles quand elles pleurent.  »

Mike Mew

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I've had several patients come to me saying that he is no longer practicing, he would certainly owe them a call if he still is, but he's not responded to anything.
Apart from this, has anyone gained any information on wear times or types of head brace.

I've had several people congratulate me for the effort to trying to ask the membership of this site but i've had almost nothing useful back. As I mention I am very interested in what you as people that tried these things at home, have to say. Please give me some feedback.

Thanks,
M

Knoppe

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Mr.Mew. I read that Dr.Amir had a stroke and is out of practice for that reason. I don't know if it's the truth but it's what I've read.

The recomended wearing time for the head brace is 30-45 min afaik. Try asking plato at:
 http://jawpain-tmjtreatment.com/

His recomendations is the one people are following and he's answered buckloads of questions regarding the treatment. He's also a former patient of conventional orthodontics aswell as functional orthodontics and NCR.

I think you might've chosen the wrong forum/time to ask around on this particular forum seeing as there are quite few peopie actually posting.

I use my mask for about 30 min every other day. I don't know how much it helps but it gives a nice stretch. I also have bracers, ALF and dabble with self NCR. I'm done with my orthodontic treatment in 10 months and I might have a better idea about wearing times then. For now I stick to 30 min or less if I feel I've had enough.

Walrus on this forum has a different method which works more aggressive and with less static more powerful and pulsating pulls.

There's also a device called "the crane" which works like a recerse face mask:

http://www.thecranencrp.com/testimonialsdrpatient.html

This guy uses or used to use one. Ask him and check his update on recerse orthodontics out:


http://claimingpower.com/reverse-extraction-orthodontics-is-it-possible-for-adults-progress-report/


Gaia

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Dr Mike Mew! What a joy to see you here. You are one of my idols, I'm a member of your Facebook group and I also heard your interview by Dr Steven Park (fascinating). 

I have been face pulling according to jawpain-tmjtreatment.com for 3 months total and the thing that I noticed the most was the bone above my right canine came out. I've also done 35 sessions of "self NCR"/balloon therapy but honestly I haven't noticed a difference big enough that I can be sure is not part of my imagination. I've been wondering how much the age in adults matters. Tyler on this forum has had tremendous results. He is however only 18 and considered to be a young adult. (I'm 36.) Messiah Mews has also had great results where the maxilla came forward quite a bit, but she's having NCR done professionally and with a lot more force. 

Before we move on with the conversation I think we might need to define forward maxillary expansion. To many laymen like myself this term appears quite vague. On one hand there is the maxilla as in Le Fort 1 osteotomy, there's also Le fort 2. What exact area in the skull are we talking about here? And which one of these two, if any, would be the equivalent of face pulling? Of orthotropics treatment? The crane? The ALF doing forward expansion?

On the other hand there's also expansion of the premaxilla. What appliance/technique takes care of this? 

I guess another question would be, can you expand a big part of the maxilla by using an appliance that works from inside the mouth? Or would you need some kind of reverse headgear to do that?

Then there are the actual teeth. People like myself who have had traditional orthodontics often have front teeth that are slanted inwards. It looks like they should be perpendicular to the nose. Face pulling has not addressed this problem in me so far. (It should be said that I'm wearing a lateral Schwarz appliance with a wire over the front teeth 24/7.) Or would that problem take care of itself if the maxilla was moved upwards? 

Complexx

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Hi guys, it's been a WHILE since I've come back on here (Tyler I still have to get back at your responses man!) I'll be back soon... I've been pretty busy lately & I've finally found time to cool down & chill. Anyways, I just wanted to address the comment above by saying that Tyler is 23 (says it on its profile) so I don't where you got "18" from. Also, there have been people somewhat older than you (you're still fairly young) expand their palates 5-10+mm & see pretty good results. http://www.archwired.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=38460&sid=c36140dff602e9434380e594b963313f

I honestly think that, if you want to see GOOD results, you will have to ditch the self NCR & that palate expander you're currently using. It really sounds like you need professional help (DNA appliance provider + NCR/facemax practitioner. Trust me, it'll be be worth the money.

I will talk to you guys very soon & Tyler I did NOT forget about you!

Gaia

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Why would I stop using the expander when that's the only thing that has helped so far? (I guess I didn't made sense in my last post.) I could stop using it and then try face pulling and ncr but a relapse at this point wouldn't be fun since I've invested a year in this treatment. So far ncr and fp are just theories to me without any proof that they would help me, whereas lateral expansion is very real.

What I'm using is very similar to a DNA appliance. I haven't done any forward expansion yet but I plan to. What Dr. Mew is asking though is whether face pulling for 30 or so minutes a day is helping people. My reply to that is that after 3 months I see very minor changes, if any, but I'm also struggling with understanding exactly what area we're talking about here.