Break the Matrix
General Discussion => Cranial Restructuring => Topic started by: slamo28 on April 21, 2017, 09:23:55 pm
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This girl widened with oral appliance then face pulled with the reverse pull headgear. Would've been better to use The crane because the reverse pull headgear basically does exactly what its name says. It reverses lower jaw growth but it makes the profile look proportionate.
BEFORE
(https://www.hindawi.com/journals/crid/2014/270257.fig.001.jpg)
AFTER
(https://www.hindawi.com/journals/crid/2014/270257.fig.007.jpg)
Ive said before the effects of Oral posutre is Lower jaw coming forward and Widening of palate. nothing else.
(http://2ol6gw3os1no4av0x92kx9kl.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Orthotropics-7.png)
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. about the Crane I always saw how the pulling seems very downward, it could be a risk of lengthening the face more. It should be adjusted to push at least front forward.
I'm glad you brought this up up. I believe that pulling downward is exactly what you want because if you have proper head posture you'll notice that your face is angled more towards the floor that straight ahead. Your tongue will act as the upward force balancing everything out. Was it you who posted about head posture? Let me know if your still confused about it because I think its very important and veeeery cool when you figure it out.
Btw I still did not understand where the Crane is performed because in the web I didn't find any ortho who utilizes it.
And.. another thing I think I understood.. I think that to use the crane one must have the maxilla centred... not shifted to the left/right, not asymmetrically inclined.. after someone works in symmetry and the skull is symmetrical but still recessed then he could use the Crane.
They have a website where they list practitioner. http://www.thecranencrp.com/listofpractitioners.html (http://www.thecranencrp.com/listofpractitioners.html) And yes i agree many believe widening and centering is best before pulling.
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Was it you who posted about head posture? Let me know if your still confused about it because I think its very important and veeeery cool when you figure it out.
Ay brother, dont wait for someone to ask for the information, just post it man, will we all be thankful. I myself fixed my head posture with the chin tucking and staying straighter but will still be glad to read new information
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Fair enough! So when i tried to fix my head posture i walked around with a forced chin tuck and was constantly stretching the back neck. After a couple days my front part of the neck got very tense, as was expected because i was forcing it. The body wasn't responding to a forced new posture.
It then became apparent to me that i had introduce proper function in order to get proper posture. The goal was tobring the phone up to my face instead of looking down at phone (head weighs 12 pounds so doing this strained neck muscles at the back), and when using laptop to never have the head leaning out forward past the shoulders. I was surprised how ingrained the bad habits were but they were easy to change, hard to remember.
After about 3 days of proper cell phone and laptop viewing function, something crazy happened. Huge trigger points (muscle knots) seem to appear out of nowhere at the base of my skull. Made sense. The proper function was lengthening once atrophied muscles and provided blood circulation to a region that had been strained my whole life. Got rid of the trigger points which caused the neck muscles at the back to full lengthen, which then caused my entire head to naturally rotate in the proper direction. I completely lost my jawline (which means natural chin tuck with no forcing) and the back of my head no longer had such a jagged hook.
Notice how Canelo Alverez (Left) has completely flat back of head while Amir Khan (right) has that jagged hook. The jagged hook means Amir Khans head has waaaay more upward rotation. AND CANELO KNOCKED HIM THE F*** OUT BTW. like it was bad.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/07/00/33EA022800000578-0-image-a-30_1462577200367.jpg)
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Great image! Referencing to my most recent post, notice how Alverez's jaw seems to be protracted (jutted forward a little bit) while his pterygoid muscles are being activated, but it doesn't actually look like he's clenching his teeth together. It just looks like he maintains a pretty high degree of tension in his jaw muscles. In contrast, Khan's jaws seem to be pretty relaxed, and he is carrying little to no tension in his pterygoid muscles. Maybe if Khan learned to position his jaw a little differently Alverez wouldn't have had such an easy time dismantling him.
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Slamo28 thanks for that post, I've been reading about doing the chin tuck but I've literally just been pushing my chin into my neck like when you're trying to give yourself a double chin so thanks for clearing that up!
Looking at the pictures, in particular the one where the girl has used reverse pull headgear, there's obvious expansion of the palate (presumably as it has been pulled forward for a great amount of time as I'm aware the woman just wore braces with the headgear attached). If you see the original post on facepulling.com, you can see that actually her face as come "up" a bit, and looks like rather than her face being as flat and her chin appearing to sticking out as much the cheekbones stand out more, making the chin seems to stick out less.
Also interested in that Mike Mew regularly talks about the correct lip seal and and that people who close their mouths seem more attractive, but she definitely seems more attractive in the second image where her mouth is open and her top lip comes "up" with the corner of her lips coming down if you understand where I'm coming from?
After seeing the images I'm keen to do facepulling like she has done with a reverse pull mask over a long period of time, but using my palate expander as I don't have braces. I think this may work to my advantage as it means it wont be pulling my teeth forwards but my whole palate instead, and if the theories are correct and as the palate comes forward it expands, perhaps if my palate is pulled forward gradually it will expand also? Or maybe I can expand and pull at the same time gradually. My main worry is that my face is not symmetrical, as my palate is too small and is dropped and set back on one side. Any thoughts?
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Slamo28 thanks for that post, I've been reading about doing the chin tuck but I've literally just been pushing my chin into my neck like when you're trying to give yourself a double chin so thanks for clearing that up!
Looking at the pictures, in particular the one where the girl has used reverse pull headgear, there's obvious expansion of the palate (presumably as it has been pulled forward for a great amount of time as I'm aware the woman just wore braces with the headgear attached). If you see the original post on facepulling.com, you can see that actually her face as come "up" a bit, and looks like rather than her face being as flat and her chin appearing to sticking out as much the cheekbones stand out more, making the chin seems to stick out less.
Also interested in that Mike Mew regularly talks about the correct lip seal and and that people who close their mouths seem more attractive, but she definitely seems more attractive in the second image where her mouth is open and her top lip comes "up" with the corner of her lips coming down if you understand where I'm coming from?
After seeing the images I'm keen to do facepulling like she has done with a reverse pull mask over a long period of time, but using my palate expander as I don't have braces. I think this may work to my advantage as it means it wont be pulling my teeth forwards but my whole palate instead, and if the theories are correct and as the palate comes forward it expands, perhaps if my palate is pulled forward gradually it will expand also? Or maybe I can expand and pull at the same time gradually. My main worry is that my face is not symmetrical, as my palate is too small and is dropped and set back on one side. Any thoughts?
I think the increased attractiveness is despite her open lips rather than because of them. The expanded palate is what makes her more attractive. People with a narrow palate and lip incompetence tend to look like Napoleon Dynamite. Megan Fox tends to part her lips a lot in pictures but she looks more sensual rather than a mouthbreather when she does it because of her excellent midface structure and palate.
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I think this may work to my advantage as it means it wont be pulling my teeth forwards but my whole palate instead, and if the theories are correct and as the palate comes forward it expands, perhaps if my palate is pulled forward gradually it will expand also? Or maybe I can expand and pull at the same time gradually. My main worry is that my face is not symmetrical, as my palate is too small and is dropped and set back on one side. Any thoughts?
I would widen first then pull. although to be honest im not sure it matters which to do first. but i would use the crane since it doesn't anchor on mandible. int the picture above the girls mandible seems to have receded. The crane In theory it should be the perftect device for facepulling because it would bring everything forward.
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Not sure if a I'm doing right.. but what I basically do is straighten the back of my neck (lifting up the back of the cranium basically) and the double chin and chin tuck comes naturally because of that..
that's exactly right. feel around for trigger points in the suboccipital muscles. Once you release those the cranium can fully rotate forward and the position will feel natural. But its also integral that you stop looking down at your phone for craning head forward to look at laptop.
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but i would use the crane since it doesn't anchor on mandible. int the picture above the girls mandible seems to have receded. The crane In theory it should be the perftect device for facepulling because it would bring everything forward.
What do you mean by receded? The location of the mandible does not recede unless the location of the bite recedes, which is the opposite of what she seems to have achieved. Besides, not a single facepulling device is anchored on the mandible. Bringing maxilla forward is enough to "bring everything forward", which is why all devices focus on that. Mandible merely follows the upper jaw and remodels itself according to the needs of the bite.
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Besides, not a single facepulling device is anchored on the mandible. Bringing maxilla forward is enough to "bring everything forward", which is why all devices focus on that. Mandible merely follows the upper jaw and remodels itself according to the needs of the bite.
What? the reverse pull headgear anchors on the mandible... And your right looking at the photo again i don't see any recession in mandible. BUT Below is a passage from the crane website,
"Unlike facemasks, this device revolutionizes forward pull by NOT pushing on the cranial bones, mandible or facial bones. the CRANE delivers precise forces to quickly achieve amazing results without surgery. the CRANE is more effective than traditional methods of forward pull because it's not using the mandible (considered an anatomical joint) and facial bones (also subject to being pushed in or moved) to "move" the maxilla forward. Question: Do current methods of reverse pull the maxilla and facial bones out OR are the mandible and facial bones actually being pushed in? "
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Ah yeah, I misunderstood the issue you were talking about. I thought that by talking about anchoring you were referring to the pulling force that is anchored to the braces/appliance on the upper dental arch.
Yes, that may be an issue, at least for children whose bones are still very malleable.
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Skull I understand, no disputing she looks better in the second picture though, so obviously the face pulling has worked!
Slamo28 I've looked into the Crane and the neck brace seems real bulky, I was hoping to wear any face pulling appliance overnight but I doubt I'd be able to with that. I know the guy on facpulling.com has made his own but I'm not sure if I have to skills for that.
I see what you mean about the mandible as well, I think she should have carried on face pulling with something that didnt push the lower jaw and perhaps at a more forward angle, as this would have fixed the gummy smile which is a sign of a recessed maxilla I believe?
I'm hoping to book an assessment with an orthodontist in these next coming months to begin treatment.. I'm not 100% sure my reading is accurate but my interior molar width is 30mm which I believe is small considering I have 28 teeth?
Lastly, what appliance do we think is more effective? CP got results using a bulky acrylic palate expander, and I already have one of those (but not yet a treatment plan), but I like the idea of the ALF because it's constant and can be paired with myofunctional therapy which is better in the long run. I'm considering using ALF to expand then once expanded have braces (maybe damon for even more axpansion?) and facepull whilst having braces with my palate expandre, or even whilst wearing the ALF.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYJBkX9FTLQ video of results with homeoblock
Any advice would be great guys :)
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Hi! No expert advice but I do appreciate the video - it's really encouraging :)
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Lastly, what appliance do we think is more effective? CP got results using a bulky acrylic palate expander, and I already have one of those (but not yet a treatment plan), but I like the idea of the ALF because it's constant and can be paired with myofunctional therapy which is better in the long run.
I would probably go with the ALF so that you can practice proper oral posture while undergoing treatment. Although any expander is good just make sure you practice myofunctional therapy directly after treatment.
GuysI will propose to my ortho to use Crane on me, wish me good luck and if he does agree (and I do not live in any capital or big city) well it could be taken as living example of the fact that is not necessary to travel worldwide to have a Crane treatment done. Fly in America is like madness for someone who lives in any other part of the world. Tons of money..
Let us know what he says. One ortho i called had different rates for different services. He said $625 for him to oversee the entire crane treatment, and another amount (he didnt say) for them to just provide it along with modified retainers.
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Let us know what he says. One ortho i called had different rates for different services. He said $625 for him to oversee the entire crane treatment, and another amount (he didnt say) for them to just provide it along with modified retainers.
Do you mean retainers related to the Crane treatment? I emailed the Crane people a few days ago asking if a retainer is used for pulling with the Crane and they said the suggested appliance was a reverse pull version of ALF. (I'm trying to attach a photo of it, but keep getting an error message)
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Let us know what he says. One ortho i called had different rates for different services. He said $625 for him to oversee the entire crane treatment, and another amount (he didnt say) for them to just provide it along with modified retainers.
Do you mean retainers related to the Crane treatment? I emailed the Crane people a few days ago asking if a retainer is used for pulling with the Crane and they said the suggested appliance was a reverse pull version of ALF. (I'm trying to attach a photo of it, but keep getting an error message)
yes i do mean retainers related the Cranee. they told me i could use a retainer with hooks attached to it. But yea the usually use ALF. really wanna see that phot. if your pulling image from a website then right click, copy image location, click insert image right below BOLD button, then paste image location in between prompt.
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A modified retainer would be preferable, if that could be used instead of the ALF. I couldn't confirm it because there wasn't a whole lot of info, but I thought I heard that ALF requires those headgear posts (whatever the correct term is) bonded around your teeth?
The Crane employee I emailed didn't reply when I asked if there's any more patient before/after photos besides X-rays, which was very disappointing considering the "years of testing" their site proclaims.
Trying to attach the photo keeps bringing up a message saying "the upload folder is full", so here it is:
(https://i.gyazo.com/9fcc05dfa88f67e5857a5b5cdaf5351b.png)
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A modified retainer would be preferable, if that could be used instead of the ALF. I couldn't confirm it because there wasn't a whole lot of info, but I thought I heard that ALF requires those headgear posts (whatever the correct term is) bonded around your teeth?
The Crane employee I emailed didn't reply when I asked if there's any more patient before/after photos besides X-rays, which was very disappointing considering the "years of testing" their site proclaims.
Yea this is all you need for the crane. Also, strangely im not surprised there are no before and after pics. The crane needs to be worn at night and i know for a fact peoples sleep habits are poor already. The lady i talked to said one has to teach his or herself to sleep on their back for this treatment to work. for the average person who curls up into a ball at night, sleeping on their back will most likely be so uncomfortable that they say **** it and give up. Throw a crane in the mix and forget it. BUT my hypothesis is once someone fixes their head posture and can sleep on their back without ANY PILLOWS (which i have done), the crane should would perfectly. Anyone who has the crane, is this wishful thinking or does this sound practical?
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BUT my hypothesis is once someone fixes their head posture and can sleep on their back without ANY PILLOWS (which i have done), the crane should would perfectly. Anyone who has the crane, is this wishful thinking or does this sound practical?
I agree that with correctly forward grown bone structure it should be possible, and perhaps even optimal. Do you find it easy to breathe while sleeping on your back without a pillow? I find sleep apnea and heavy snoring unavoidable when sleeping on back, even after using pillows to elevate the head and neck.
It seems that even Native Americans - whose skulls neared perfection - didn't sleep without a pillow. Yet considering the evolution of the modern human it should be reasonable to assume that man spent majority of this lengthy period sleeping without a pillow, especially before becoming self-aware enough to start utilizing complex tools. All animals in the nature have their own proper growth ensuring natural sleeping positions that can be achieved without any extra props. It wouldn't make sense to believe that the modern human would've evolved to need a pillow for sleep either. Instead, it was probably something that was picked up over time to compensate for improper structure and form.
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Yea this is all you need for the crane. Also, strangely im not surprised there are no before and after pics. The crane needs to be worn at night and i know for a fact peoples sleep habits are poor already. The lady i talked to said one has to teach his or herself to sleep on their back for this treatment to work. for the average person who curls up into a ball at night, sleeping on their back will most likely be so uncomfortable that they say **** it and give up. Throw a crane in the mix and forget it. BUT my hypothesis is once someone fixes their head posture and can sleep on their back without ANY PILLOWS (which i have done), the crane should would perfectly. Anyone who has the crane, is this wishful thinking or does this sound practical?
Was there anything that helped you adjust to sleeping exclusively on your back, or was it just a situation of forcing yourself to do it until it was natural? I practically sleep on my face, and can see how it'd be a huge challenge to lay flat up.
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Was there anything that helped you adjust to sleeping exclusively on your back, or was it just a situation of forcing yourself to do it until it was natural? I practically sleep on my face, and can see how it'd be a huge challenge to lay flat up.
So this is something i've been think a lot about. My first attempts at sleeping on my back failed and that was because my muscles were so used to curling up into a ball. So for those who feel major discomfort i suggest stretching hip flexors before bed. I went to the absolute extreme and released every single trigger point in my body. This was in hopes to fully lengthen any atrophied muscles to assuage back sleeping process. Man lemme tell you, i found trigger points ALL OVER especially in the quadriceps. There was a trigger point i found that swelled to the size of a golf ball. I even stopped goin to the gym because i didnt want to add any excess tension. Anyway the goal is to really loosen up hip flexors and get rid of any anteriror pelvic tilt. Or any pelvic tilt for that matter. I would also focus on pecotralis minor and major as that can greatly affect posture. Like seriously do not over look those. I would refer to this website to tackle the big six areas of your body. This website changed my life seriously. http://www.ptacademy.edu.au/ultimate-six-unlock-your-body/ (http://www.ptacademy.edu.au/ultimate-six-unlock-your-body/)
I find sleep apnea and heavy snoring unavoidable when sleeping on back, even after using pillows to elevate the head and neck.
for those who literally cant sleep on their backs because of airways issues, continue mewing, doing oral posture exercises three times a day. We want that palate to widen and that lower jaw to come forward so that your tongue wont obstruct your airway. In the mean time you will have to elevate your upper body using a wedge pillow as that will alleviate those airway issues. (https://www.the-pillow.com/uploads/thumb/jpg/38/640x322/uploads/images/products/38/reading-wedge.png)
It seems that even Native Americans - whose skulls neared perfection - didn't sleep without a pillow. Yet considering the evolution of the modern human it should be reasonable to assume that man spent majority of this lengthy period sleeping without a pillow, especially before becoming self-aware enough to start utilizing complex tools. All animals in the nature have their own proper growth ensuring natural sleeping positions that can be achieved without any extra props. It wouldn't make sense to believe that the modern human would've evolved to need a pillow for sleep either. Instead, it was probably something that was picked up over time to compensate for improper structure and form.
Yes exactly!
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This is a repeat from another thread but appropriate here.
You should check the thread on handling bodies.
Jaw problems are often not just the head or even in the head at all. It is much more than that.
check MeningealRelease.com
You can learn ABC™ yourself with a friend and save your body as well as time and money rather than paying someone who cannot do as much.
As I state in the video, the front view is useless, it is the side view that is most important and if you go to MeningealRelease.com , sign up and learn the ABC First Rib Maneuver™ your body will work better than you imagine and you will know the rest can be accomplished consistently -- rather than empty promises that only work for some.
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That's great, thanks for sharing.
I still have my braces atm ... I will get around to getting them off, and getting one of those funny expander things in.
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Actually there are before and after. .. and I'm really shocked
http://www.thecranencrp.com/
There is the girl with severe lack of midface.. and the pic on the right is crazingly different
I am so skeptical of this before and after photo. Looks like a double jaw surgery to me.
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Bumping this thread because I've been obsessing about facepulling for days, specifically the Crane.
That before and after of the girl in front of the blue background is a patient of someone else, and she had surgeries that are unrelated to the concept of facepulling. http://drrichardjoseph.com/photos/112.php
What's the point of displaying someone who doesn't reflect the product being advertised?
Is the blonde girl up top the same person as the blonde woman on the bottom? I thought the photos were unrelated, but the whole website looks like something from 1998 so it's hard to tell and it makes what sounds like a good invention look very amateur when presented in such a clunky manner with little information to see.