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Posted by: Gucci Gang
« on: July 07, 2016, 12:11:50 pm »

Im getting the Crane, hopefully soon
Posted by: C
« on: July 07, 2016, 07:10:57 am »

@knoppe

There is a doctor who is expert in facial symmetries in my area and i really wanted to see her but shes quite expensive. Im planning to buy the crane facemask instead, any new developments with the crane?

Did you mean to see an expert in treatment of facial asymmetry (left-right) or other imbalances (antero-posterior)? I saw you mentioned a-p correction elsewhere. Could you share whom you wanted to see? If I have a chance to see her I could share info to return the favor.
Posted by: ma6
« on: August 16, 2014, 09:19:25 am »

I'm very interested in getting the crane, to use for pull headgear for orthodontics to correct my bite, instead of the type of headgear that would push on my chin/face...

Sadly no. Since the hooks are angled upwards, they make upward pulling over a certain angle quite impossible. I'm not too impressed with it. It is possible to raise the "arm" up but that reduces it's angle so I have to say that I currently find it suboptimal. Might be a size issue (I have a medium) and it's perhaps solved by using something to keep the elastics in place. Rubber seals or something similar. I'm working on it though!

I would like to understand this. Can you explain this in another way? Why doesn't raising the post make it pull upward? Where are the hooks you mention - on your teeth or on the crane?

Also, I understand you sleep on your back. But, is it possible to sleep on your side with the crane?

Thanks.
Posted by: Knoppe
« on: August 07, 2014, 01:27:32 am »

Hey thanks I'm checking out that site. Are nasal passages and sinuses same thing? I have large sinuses but my nose is small. I do have breathing problems too but my airway is normal size.

I'm not sure. I may have used the wrong term but what I mean is reduced airflow due to narrow passages. I myself have noticed an improvement in my ability to breathe through my nose since I started treatment.
Posted by: PUMA
« on: August 06, 2014, 01:05:02 am »

Hey thanks I'm checking out that site. Are nasal passages and sinuses same thing? I have large sinuses but my nose is small. I do have breathing problems too but my airway is normal size.
Posted by: Knoppe
« on: August 05, 2014, 02:04:53 pm »

@Puma

It took a while to adjust to sleeping on my back but I didnt't force it. If your nasal passages are too narrow then I imagine it'll be a problem during sleep since you'd probably be turning over to get more air. There is a personal trainer that calls himself "b reddy" who whas an affordable e-book on sleeping. The theory is that a bad sleeping posture will reinforce your posture when you're awake. The book contains some nice tips on using pillows to prop up different parts of the body to counteract this. Depending on what your problem is. I found it quite helpful. B-reddy.org. A great resource aswell.


Knoppe, this is very exciting! Great timing.  ;)
So now that you've worn the Crane for a couple of days, have you been able to do an upward pull? Does the "arm" in front extend enough that you can get an upward angle?


Sadly no. Since the hooks are angled upwards, they make upward pulling over a certain angle quite impossible. I'm not too impressed with it. It is possible to raise the "arm" up but that reduces it's angle so I have to say that I currently find it suboptimal. Might be a size issue (I have a medium) and it's perhaps solved by using something to keep the elastics in place. Rubber seals or something similar. I'm working on it though!
Posted by: Gaia
« on: August 05, 2014, 01:49:48 pm »

Knoppe, this is very exciting! Great timing.  ;)
So now that you've worn the Crane for a couple of days, have you been able to do an upward pull? Does the "arm" in front extend enough that you can get an upward angle?
Posted by: PUMA
« on: August 01, 2014, 11:34:18 am »



Give it some time. Atleast you won't have to keep wearing it for too long if it don't work out.

Any tips for sleeping on the back?

I want to get reg or Damon braces but also want to bring my jaw forward, thus my interest in the face pulling headgear(s). I have an open bite that needs to get fixed but i don't want to go the splint route. I had bottom splints for 6 months and hate, HATED, them. My jaw is probably not in the correct position but i'm hoping facepulling will help with bringing both jaws forward.

Posted by: Knoppe
« on: August 01, 2014, 06:39:00 am »

I hope the comfortable level improves. Are you a back sleeper or side sleeper? I'm a side sleeper myself but i also toss and turn a lot.

Did your ortho recommend the 3rd teeth for the anchoring location? So there needs to be hooks added for anchoring of the ALF? I'm asking because i intend to get braces soon and i want to know if braces needs special design for the anchoring.

We'll see. At this point I feel it's hit and miss with this project.

He didn't say much about anything really. Nope, nothing with the brackets are needed. The hooks are not on the ALF but on the bracers (the wire). I know that it's possible to modify the ALF to have hooks on it.

I was taught to sleep on my back by a "jaw specialist" 10 years ago because of TMD issues. Used to sleep on my stomach. I prefere sleeping on my side aswell but don't do it since it messes with my jaw and shoulders.

What kind of bracers are you getting? Did you have any expansion work done with an applience?
Posted by: PUMA
« on: July 31, 2014, 12:35:25 pm »

I hope the comfortable level improves. Are you a back sleeper or side sleeper? I'm a side sleeper myself but i also toss and turn a lot.

Did your ortho recommend the 3rd teeth for the anchoring location? So there needs to be hooks added for anchoring of the ALF? I'm asking because i intend to get braces soon and i want to know if braces needs special design for the anchoring.
Posted by: Knoppe
« on: July 31, 2014, 08:22:37 am »

"@knoppe,
That's great to know! So is your Crane adjusted to have a forward and upward pull? How many degrees is it higher than your occlusal plane? Atleast 12 weeks doesn't seem that long. How many hrs do you have to wear it per day? What kind of appliance do you wear for in the mouth?

Have you used facemax or done any facepulling?

I'm mostly likely going with facemax because i'm receiving NCR from Dr Howell."

I have no idea about the degrees. I didn't recieve any instructions other than to wear it when I sleep, only use it when I lay down and that's about it. I attatch the elastics to the hooks in the wire of my bracers. I aim to get as close to an upward pull as possible. Just as with the helmet.

I've done face pulling and noticed some results. It's a nice stretch aswell. I'm in self litigating bracers aswell as upper and lower ALF:s. You're right. 12 weeks isn't that long and my ortho seems to expect minor results. I aim to prove him wrong! The hooks now enable me to face pull without messing up the brackets. Unfortunatly, they're positioned in front of the third teeth and not the canines. I'll experiment with different attatchment points of the rubber bands.

I'd also go for the FaceMax. Seems to me like it's the most reliable and researched option. I'm not saying that the crane is bad but I'm a bit conserned about the angle of pulling and also the anchoring in the front of the mouth.

We'll see how it goes. So far, I slept horrible due to the neck brace. It's a bit unfomfortable.

Posted by: PUMA
« on: July 31, 2014, 02:05:38 am »

I'm not able to quote you guys for some reason, hmmm. Maybe a glitch.

Those xrays look good, i mean it looks like the jaws improved for her. Her neck seems to have more of a curve too in the after! But maybe it's also due to the head position too. Can either of you read the measurements? I'd like to know how much maxilla and mandible came forward.

Yes, the traditional headgear seems to push on the other bones to bring the maxilla out.

For Rampa the placement is higher on the forehead. Rampa does mention increasing anterior cranial base volume so I'm assuming that it doesn't push back the forehead.


Anyway here is the article re: RAMPA. I can't find one with adult patients though.

https://dnaappliance.com/articles/Craniofacial-changes-in-patients-with-Class-III-malocclusion-treated-with-the-RAMPA-system.pdf


@knoppe,
That's great to know! So is your Crane adjusted to have a forward and upward pull? How many degrees is it higher than your occlusal plane? Atleast 12 weeks doesn't seem that long. How many hrs do you have to wear it per day? What kind of appliance do you wear for in the mouth?

Have you used facemax or done any facepulling?

I'm mostly likely going with facemax because i'm receiving NCR from Dr Howell.
.
Posted by: Knoppe
« on: July 30, 2014, 02:42:45 pm »

I recieved "the Crane" today. If you get the right size, the holder is movable so that you can get an upwards pulling force. It's designed so that it pulls foward and upward without using the head as leverage. The FaceMax is more or less a customised american football helmet where the grillz are movable and adjusted after proprioceptive testing. The FaceMax can therefore pull with more force in one angle and on one side.

We'll see how the Crane works out. I'll be using it for at least 12 weeks.
Posted by: Gaia
« on: July 30, 2014, 02:05:31 pm »

The thing is that RAMPA (as well as the crane and traditional headgears) requires long hours of wear and according to Dr Howell, this places too much stress and will not grow new bone.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this information. It really seems like we've got two opposing views here. One Howell/Plato side that claims you shouldn't wear it for too long and one Crane/Mew/RAMPA side that says you need to wear it for enough hours during the day.

Back to the topic of moving the mandible back or forward. If you look at the before-after picture of this woman's skull here:
http://www.thecranencrp.com/beforeandafter.html
It looks as if her mandible actually came forward quite a bit. The heatmap thing also indicates this.

Another difference between Crane and RAMPA that I thought about is the headgear pushing on the bones. Quote website for The Crane:
"the CRANE is more effective than traditional methods of forward pull because it's not using the mandible (considered an anatomical joint) and facial bones (also subject to being pushed in or moved) to "move" the maxilla forward.  Question: Do current methods of reverse pull the maxilla and facial bones out OR are the mandible and facial bones actually being pushed in?"

If you look at this picture of RAMPA, it pushes on the forehead (not sure if/how that matters).
Posted by: PUMA
« on: July 30, 2014, 11:45:20 am »

I am not sure if it's only in Japan, i saw on the orthotropics website that they were having courses for it in london earlier this year but i haven't heard anything about the US. I think someone should ask Dr Mew about whether it's avail in the west. I am in the USA so I want to see someone in the USA, of course. The thing is that RAMPA (as well as the crane and traditional headgears) requires long hours of wear and according to Dr Howell, this places too much stress and will not grow new bone.