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Posted by: Knoppe
« on: January 03, 2014, 01:45:55 am »

I'm with Walrus on this. Facepulling and NCR seems more like straightening/re-aligning cranial bones like putting preassure in a crushed beer can. Palate expansion through appliances or braces will grow new bone if done slowly. It takes time for new bone to grow.

About aligning the bite. I have a hard time seeing how facepulling or NCR can affect the dental arches. If suffering from an over jet (meaning that the upper teeth are flared out, forward) bracers seem like the way to go. Self litigating ones where the dental arch is developed outwards, that is.

I belive that the methods are great compliments to eachother. That's why practitioners have begun working together. Release of the connective tissue with NCR helps bracers/expansion plates to do their job properly.

If one has narrow dental arches (v-shaped instead of u-shaped) then orthodontic treatment will solve this. Note. NONE extraction, self litigating and outward moving of the teeth. As Walrus says, this has to be done in a slow fashion to avoid tiping of the teeth and to promote bone growth.

Check CP:s blog out. He mentions that he has to wear his applience 24/7 for the suture not to close up since he's done aggressive expansion of the palatte. The theory is that expansion will cement itself after a while.

I also belive, seeing as I'm a bit fan of Dr.Weston E Price's work, that nutrition is a key component in facial restructuring to optimize new bone growth and keeping the connective tissue healthy. I just don't know what protocol to follow yet. For now, I'm following a Ray Peatish style of eating. Just need to work up the nerve to push through my disdain for eating liver.
Posted by: Walrus
« on: October 24, 2013, 01:29:48 pm »

Hey Connor, Gaia,

Just a quick response as to the reasoning behind my method.  When I first began FP, I followed Kevin's blog exactly:  light-pulling, limited amount per day, using the mask/retainer, etc..  No results

My method I developed from experience:  it gave me results.  That is all.

With face-pulling, I believe no new bone is being developed (in contrary to Kevin's blog).  It is more similar to NCR it that it reconfigures the skull.  It moves the bone you have, it doesn't build new bone.  This means the only limit is how much your body can take at a time.

An example of a process that builds new bone is palate expansion.  This is why it needs to be done at a controlled rate, or teeth will simply tip.
Posted by: Gaia
« on: October 21, 2013, 10:09:52 am »

Great reply, Connor!

Have you seen before and after pictures of Kevin by any chance? If so, what did you notice?

What does it mean that the smile "levels"? I keep hearing this a lot. Sorry, I'm not a native English speaker.  ;)

I totally agree about the things that are needed. I do think the choice of practitioner matters a lot though. Some orthos are very cautious and will claim that you can't make that big of a difference once you've stopped growing.
Some patients and functional orthos will also think an orthotic splint is necessary for those who have a retracted mandible.

Yes, Walrus might want to read what you said about not pulling to hard or progressing too quickly. Judging from his posts I think it might be possible for him to improve some more.

Posted by: Connor
« on: October 17, 2013, 01:22:50 am »

Awe darn It bleeped out Koichis last name. Poor guy moment....Koichi Miya$hita (sheeta) for anyone wondering.
Posted by: Connor
« on: October 17, 2013, 01:15:16 am »

I saw walruses shoe lace device it was nifty and creative, but to myself, I feel like even though it may be giving the impression that lots of progress is occurring, that eventually that progress may come to a halt and lack a solid "base" if that makes sense, because your pulling the face out harder & faster than the body can respond (idk if hes updated his method but the last time I checked he was pulling quite hard) . Which now makes sense as to why diet is so important especially the magnesium and the K2 for the bone growth, which I talked to Kevin (worked side by side with Dr howell for some time and one of first to use facepulling mask) and it actually can and does occur. Take a look at these posts from the fellow Kevin here. He got ahead of himself and was pulling more than necessary and progress halted. He then ended up having to wait 6 months for his body to catch up. The blog has tons of info on facial remodeling.

From what I understand you must pull light enough so you don't feel your body resisting but using enough force so you actually feel something but no real major discomfort.

Also ive never been to worried about the retainer breaking I've never heard of anyone's breaking so maybe that's why. I for some odd reason have faith in those ity bity heavy steel wires probably because of the name ;).

As for specifics on results I've been experiencing my smile verrrryyy slightly leveling where as before it wasn't so much. I also think (notice the word think not know) my cheekbones are coming out, but its so damn hard to tell even with before and after pictures haha. I've also noticed my face widening around my eyes which I accredit to Ben's  self treatment protocol (thank you man so much for all your successful efforts and this site) and Dr. Koichi Miyashita, NCR practioner and Acupuncturist who I highly recommend to anyone living near San Francisco area in search of a NCR man or Acupuncture.

In all honesty Gaia I think to really achieve the results you and I are looking for and anyone else out there, were going to need these 3 things as almost a must have, those being 1. NCR 2.Facepulling 3. Some sort of palate expanding device that works with the skull without brutally forcing it to do anything (ALF, Homeoblock, Damon, or DNA,).  The ones that have combined those three were the ones I've seen with the most insane progress but also sort of needed all three to unlock everything in their bodies. Another thing is, some people really don't need one or the other so that may also be why you may hear "Well I didn't need a palate expanding anything Connor and my face turned out great!". Which is awesome and that may have been all they needed since their problems were different then lets say "Fred's" over here who not only needed the three listed above but also someone to fix his neck and spine issues because they were impeding any further progress for him. Im not sure if this all makes sense but hopefully you get  drift and can share along.

Finishing up this post...I honestly wouldn't know about your slanted inward teeth but sure as hell would not be surprised if facepulling combined with the others, fixes it eventually. Especially once you figure out your own unique "protocol" so to say,  that we all must find. Have faith my friend!

And back to T.V. shows...How I met your mother is a good one I haven't seen to many but the ones I have seen are pretty dang funny. I've been watching Palladia music station and the live performances on there mostly. They have some great shows and live covers on there if your really into your music  ;D

Posted by: Gaia
« on: October 16, 2013, 08:28:56 am »

Interesting post! 

I'm in the exact same position right now. I've been face pulling for about 2 months and only seeing very minor changes, if any. I'm using a Schwarz appliance which is similar to a retainer. 

One thing I suspect is that I might not be pulling hard enough. Isn't the risk of bending or breaking a retainer pretty big? I was thinking of getting one of these so I don't have to worry about breaking an expensive and hard to replace appliance:

Maybe doing Walrus's shoelace device? I have PMed him but I encourage him to join this thread. ;)

I pull until my teeth itch and ache a bit, similar to having braces tightened. Maybe this still isn't enough and sometimes I can't make it happen for some reason. 

What minor changes are you seeing exactly? I might be seeing something above my canines, it's like the cheekbone that goes from above the upper lip and up along the side of my nose has flared outwards. The dark crease next to my nose might also be less pronounced. It's still possible that it's just my imagination though. 

I can see on myself and others who had their teeth/jaws retracted with braces that my upper teeth are slanted inwards. I assume they won't come out just by pulling the face, am I right? Face pulling will pull forward the maxilla, not the actual teeth? I want a nice flare so I can regain the lip support I had as a child but maybe a sagittal expander will be required for this purpose. 

Happy fall to you too! 

P.S. Tv shows, yes! Lol! I always happen to watch How I met your mother. (I live in Europe.)

Posted by: Connor
« on: October 16, 2013, 12:42:38 am »

Hey all you devious go getters breaking the matrix and what not. First let me say honestly with all your guys progress ive been seeing and hearing about on here, its inspiring and really amazing. By the heavens especially you Tyler me being quite the fan of your posts. Facepulling makes undeniable results especially when paired with NCR. So possibly this Topic will serve as another guide to others and myself who are questioning exactly what all their options are and what to get and acquire before starting the process.

Anyway to the point and pre-story.

   So I finally found someone who would make me a basic Hawley retainer with hooks attached right behind the "eye" teeth. Which im told by that man we all know and love Plato is all you would need if you just wanted to "pull the face". My concern now is that I've been facepulling for some smallish time now. I would say two months. Experimenting with it and finding the best angles and forces (and TV shows to pass the time that wont melt my brain) to pull with. I definitely see minor very slowww results just as of lately with my girlfriend saying I look extra handsome more than usual (ahaaa and she has no idea) and me coming up with wittier comments and comebacks also more than usual ( whhhaaat? can I get an amen people?). Here's the thing though, its almost to slow of results that I'm seeing and I'm wondering if it may be because of the retainer that I'm using. Since it only allows me to "pull" the face forward without expanding the arches or upper palate (or does it?).

So basically what I'm pondering on is that is the basic Hawley retainer doing any good since it only works on pulling forward and does not change or expand with the arches or face. Or would someone in such a boat require a more "flexible" retainer like device or even Damon braces to get the full effect?

And yes some of you may think "Just message Plato dude" and I have but I would like to share these thoughts with you fellows considering how open minded many of you are for just merely being here  ;).

Happy Fall by the way!