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Posted by: Gearhead
« on: March 11, 2019, 03:29:33 pm »

I wouldn't lump belt pulling in with palate expanders. Bumping intermolar width up by 3-4mm is not uncommon with them.

I've yet to see anyone with results from face pulling. I'm not even sure where the face pulling theory comes from, but I don't believe it's practiced by any doctor - while adult palate expanders are. It just depends on what we're talking about here.

If you're trying to go from an intermolar width of 36mm to 42mm, that may be achievable with a DNA appliance or Homeoblock appliance. But if you're sitting at 33mm and need 46mm, lol no way way no how. You're in SARPE or bust territory.
Posted by: Greg
« on: October 19, 2018, 10:58:14 am »

I know this thread is kind of old but I agree with it. As an adult if you want serious bone changes go for surgery. From what I've read the bone changes you'd get as an adult from mewing, good posture may be about 1 maybe 2 mm over years and years. Not significant at all. Get surgery and mewing for maintenance. That's what I'm doing anyway. No point in wasting years for a possible improvement.

 On that note though I've wondered if taking growth hormone and/or testosterone along with mewing could actually provide measurably better results? Anybody try that?
Posted by: nicolettemala
« on: May 15, 2017, 09:13:11 am »

Progress, I can actually recall you recommending belt face pulling and towel pulling at the molars.

mid-palatal suture is far from fused? if thats the case then why do people bother getting surgery to expand their palates. Its fused its fixed, They have to split it down the middle to allow expansion its the only way.

And I've met with Mew himself in person and I talked about all this. He's almost a different person to his videos (in his vids hes all very optimistic, draws you in, salesman like, grounded by his facial growth evidence on children). When I saw him he was dismissive that changing of facial structure is very minute, nothing can be done. coming from mew himself. I dont know how much you are dedicated to this but thats enough to get it in my thick skull the amount of delusion I was in.
Its just the same oral posture mumbo jumbo he recommended. Im not denying mews oral posture, having good oral posture for the past two years gave me slow results, but then again that could have also been due to puberty, chewing hard gum and even weightlifting.
Im sorry it seems like its all a big lie, im so stupid to believe all of this. stupid to waste this much time on it. Guys other than mew giving advice are all in it for the money and what do you get? hope, false promises an xray from plato, a supposed ct scan of an old woman and some distorted photos.  The people on here who have had negative experiences dont post, probably cause of shame.

I swear anyone coming to this forum please please please dont get your hopes up its all RUBBISH. ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. Take it from me.The only satisfaction I get is helping people avoid danger. Where is Tyler these days? the guy who had the most amazing facial transformation, he told the truth he warned you guys.

How come everyone is supposed to believe your NEGATIVE testimony (first one I've heard) with NO pictures..but you want us to discount many Positive testimonies with photographic proof?
Plus, your stance is so aggressive I find it hard to believe it comes from a place of concern...I am sorry you've had a bad experience. Maybe you don't want others to have improvement on their face since yours went wrong? I hope you can fix what you
ve done with little time and effort :)
Posted by: Skull
« on: April 03, 2017, 08:54:58 am »

The thing here you have to understand are the forces in play. You need to exert MORE force on the bone that is being used to holding it together. Can you achieve that just by holding your tongue properly? I'm not sure...

I think it's a little more complicated. We're not trying to use our tongue to tear apart the sutures by brute force. We're using it to send a mechanical signal long term to hopefully induce bone remodeling. According to wolff's law, mechanical forces in long duration applied to a bone turns into a mechanical stress into a bio-chemical signal that stimulates osteoclasts to remove bone in certain directions and osteoblasts to build bone in others.

A tumor is a soft mass that pushes lightly, but if its pushing on bone constantly, it will remodel the bone radically over time. It's not really that it's exerting such high forces that the bones are torn out of the way by brute force, but that the cells can detect mechanical signals and adapt to them.



I'd really like to see actual before and afters where adults have achieved significant changes with no braces and no surgery.

http://breakthematrix.createaforum.com/therapies/profile-before-and-after/


This ortho is also against extractions. She also says that muscles play a big role into shaping of bone tissue.

Yeah. Exactly.
Posted by: MaxillaMaximum
« on: April 03, 2017, 03:16:38 am »

My doc agreed with most of what Mew says, but the real question here is about palatal expansion in adults. And it makes total sense that IF your palate plates have FUSED, you will just push your teeth out, which will sort of give you a wider smile, but might as well cause issues and won't give you the jaw expansion you need for aesthetics.

She showed me an actual example how in people who have deformed, uber narrow jaws and are above age of 25 or so they saw the palate in 6 parts basically. Like 6 little blocks. Then they can slowly, with palate expanders completely transform the jaw into anything.

This ortho is also against extractions. She also says that muscles play a big role into shaping of bone tissue.

The thing here you have to understand are the forces in play. You need to exert MORE force on the bone that is being used to holding it together. Can you achieve that just by holding your tongue properly? I'm not sure...

I'd really like to see actual before and afters where adults have achieved significant changes with no braces and no surgery.

I got braces and it improved my bite and my face got more aesthetic, but it was due to braces and bite, not due to change in palate.

Quote
"You need braces and surgery!" - RUN! See Orthotropics working on people everywhere of all ages
Both of these are extremely effective in most cases. Especially if you avoid extractions. There are cases of literal subhuman looking creatures transform into models because of double jaw surgery.
Posted by: MeltedFace
« on: April 03, 2017, 12:06:08 am »

I think you'll find that many people in this forum are going outside traditional, top doctors in fields and seeking out top doctors in fields going against tradition. This is a very DIY-think/outside-the-box group with a lot of wonderful knowledge. But even the Queen of England's doctors opinion won't be impressive or sway against studies, successful alternative doctors that are innovative, etc.

I doubt anyone thinks you are seeing a quack. But if you get a bit eye rolled and luke warm vibe from mentioning another person who says what isn't possible when things ARE possible, you'll see push. Many of us have been through horrible, expensive, traditional treatments for all our lives, and purposely seek out other things.

This is what we hear:
"You can't slow aging!"- yes you can, see Sanford Bennet and his work "Old Cause: It's Cause and Prevention."
"Vegans don't get protein and aren't healthy!" -  nope, see The China Study, and vegan athletes around the world
"You've got to get a facelift for wrinkles or whatever!" - no, try facial exercises like Facerobics on YouTube
"You need braces and surgery!" - RUN! See Orthotropics working on people everywhere of all ages

You see what I mean? Basically what is tradition is just the norm. And it's often flawed, archaic, and detached from the natural (which is the best).
Posted by: MaxillaMaximum
« on: April 02, 2017, 12:19:59 pm »

If you are over age of 20 or so then palate expansion can't work unless you saw the bone open in surgery. The bones have fused at this point. At least that is what my ortho told me. I spoke in detail with her about this.
Don't trust doctors so blindly man. There were some orthodontists which even said what the Mews preach is bullsh*t, which is not, I am not sure if you know about Mew tho, check him out, Orthotropics is the channel in youtube as it was said above. Plus there are photos on the website and just write some keywords in google images

She is not "just a doctor". She is one of the top orthos in my country with a PHD. She has done a lot of research on this and has watched Mew as well. We discussed it and she said it was partly correct and that muscles influence a lot, but once the bone has fused they cut it up in 6 parts and then do palate expansion, because otherwise it will just push the teeth outside without actually widening the bone.
Posted by: TheNo0n3
« on: April 02, 2017, 11:37:28 am »

If you are over age of 20 or so then palate expansion can't work unless you saw the bone open in surgery. The bones have fused at this point. At least that is what my ortho told me. I spoke in detail with her about this.
Don't trust doctors so blindly man. There were some orthodontists which even said what the Mews preach is bullsh*t, which is not, I am not sure if you know about Mew tho, check him out, Orthotropics is the channel in youtube as it was said above. Plus there are photos on the website and just write some keywords in google images
Posted by: MeltedFace
« on: April 02, 2017, 10:03:30 am »

Face bones do not fuse like regular bone nor do sutures... I'd highly recommend watching "Orthotropics" videos by Mike Mew. Traditional understanding of bone movement and growth vs. Orthotropics is really worth a look.
Posted by: MaxillaMaximum
« on: April 02, 2017, 05:40:03 am »

If you are over age of 20 or so then palate expansion can't work unless you saw the bone open in surgery. The bones have fused at this point. At least that is what my ortho told me. I spoke in detail with her about this.
Posted by: MaxillaMaximum
« on: April 02, 2017, 05:16:31 am »

I'd love to see some before after pics as proof to that face pulling works, but since the bones FUSE after age of 20 or so, I am not sure it is possible without actual Le Fort II or Le Fort III surgery.
Posted by: MeltedFace
« on: February 27, 2017, 10:01:43 am »

At what point did the jawzrsize work for you? I can't get it in my teeth easily - my jaw just doesn't open that wide?
Posted by: Tyler
« on: February 27, 2017, 02:30:47 am »

Hello, may I ask which expander have you bought? I thought that there wasn't really anything risky about expanding, since if you have a narrow jaw, widening is always beneficial.

I read that you should turn the screw 1-2 times a day for rapid palatal expansion and that will result in a gap between the front teeth which should get closed naturally by time.

If you expand once per two days, you probably won't see a gap because your teeth will accomodate to the new position fairly quickly.

The palatal expander is currently my only option as my situation isn't so bad that I'd risk going under the knife.

A doctor said here: https://www.realself.com/question/removable-palate-exapanders-effective-fixed, " The key is to have physiologic expansion with a removable appliance putting pressure to the roof of the mouth, not the teeth and using no more than 2-3 activations (1/4 mm each) per week.  "

So watch out with how fast your expanding. To be safe I'd keep it to 1-2 "activations" per week. Also "activations" is a loose word, a different palate expander might expand by a different amount per turn.You should measure how much your palate expander expands per turn and keep it below 1/4 mm per week.

I say I have some pretty good progress from a myobrace, jawzrsize and  good tongue posture. I have some pictures that show progress. They aren't perfect medical quality photos  (seems like the only progress pics people have are shitty ones, haha.), but they're better than a lot of the ones I have seen. Im still debating if I want to put myself on the interwebs, I might do it after I finish my palate expansion/ face pulling (havent started yet). I had a receding lower jaw that I was able to move forward with the myobrace/jawzrsize through muscle training. I stopped mouth breathing in my sleep and my nose is never clogged.  I had very week masseters; they're alright now, so I've gained some good lower jaw width. The jawzrsize is pretty safe, but the gains are limited. The myobrace has done some expansion, but its probably mostly teeth tipping. The myobrace does help with facial posture though, especially during sleeping.

If I could go back, I wouldn't put pics of myself up. I was dumb and did that recklessly.

What you're saying, OP, is really right. People just show up and see the positive, then if I may say it in other words, they are just feeling a false sense of security and then going off and potentially harming themselves. Me, I personally won't try NCR on myself again because I had 2 experiences that frightened me a lot. In one, a finger cot blew up and I still don't know whether there is a piece of finger cot lodged somewhere in my sinus. And then in another instance, the balloon expanded out of my nose and slid down toward my windpipe, and while it didn't choke me and I had a pair of scissors handy and stayed my nerves so I could think, I got a real bad image of what could happen. I think I posted about it but in case I didn't I'm sharing it now, because I do NOT want to have anybody's death on my conscience just because I made a foolish error of carelessness.

Actually, the more I think of it, I wonder about just contacting the people who own that "createaforum" web site and just requesting the whole thing be taken down. We could start a new forum with all the right warnings in place, and put our learned experiences out in the front and centre. At least then we are making it right to the best of our ability. We really learned a lot, I can tell it from these posts, so we could make it better. And my posts are about done for the night but a lot was said, so I wanted to reply back in my turn to each one.
Posted by: Tyler
« on: February 27, 2017, 02:18:09 am »

Id rather say the truth than sit in silence.
Good look to anyone on here with their goals, stay safe. (Im seriously worried there are people out there hurting themselves badly over all of this self treatment NCR / facepulling / belt pulling, You always here the good but never the bad)

I'm really worried about that too. Please get better because if you have hurt yourself and I'm partly responsible then I'm going to share part of the misery.
Posted by: Tyler
« on: February 27, 2017, 01:44:56 am »

I don't know the truth, but to me the pic of that guy "patient zero" looks very striking.

Now that I think about it, though, he could have just been sick in the first pick and then in the second pic he could have been healthier, giving him back his normal handsomeness. Somehow, the whole thing just looks.. well, better though. Like something he did refined his beauty, and brought it into a better version.

...................................
Well, what should we do then?

We all are here as a community, for better or worse. And we want to be able to communicate ideas to each other, but want to make sure that others don't just blindly follow. Should we put up some disclaimers or something, and put up a clear statement that these are just self-initiated efforts to explore what kinds of modifications the natural physicality of the human body permits to be done on it?

I'm not the owner and not even a "hero member", I don't even like that name and wish I could change it because I'm really more of a curious and sometimes reckless scientist, and no hero. But I suppose what we can all recognise and agree on, is there should be some kind of greater acknowledgement of the possible negative and dangers alongside the proposed positive theories and speculations.

I don't think anybody but a real sadist and real scumbag wants to hurt anybody, but we also are human and made mistakes so we could learn from them, and now I can at least say that I did.